Email:
Laeroth,
I've recently started piecing together a crusade inspired by your website. In my reading I've noticed that you never seem to list off a full set of equipment for your crusader squads and was wondering if this was for simplicity's sake or just an omission, I know another BT player that seems to have missed this. Under the options for crusader squads in the second section of equipment (which would in normal space marine terms be the "special" weapon) you are given the option to "arm" one initiate with a melta or plasma gun, This entry does not indicate that his other equipment will be replaced (as it is in the current 5th ed SM codex), so the actual wargear of the squad you have below:
Laeroth,
I've recently started piecing together a crusade inspired by your website. In my reading I've noticed that you never seem to list off a full set of equipment for your crusader squads and was wondering if this was for simplicity's sake or just an omission, I know another BT player that seems to have missed this. Under the options for crusader squads in the second section of equipment (which would in normal space marine terms be the "special" weapon) you are given the option to "arm" one initiate with a melta or plasma gun, This entry does not indicate that his other equipment will be replaced (as it is in the current 5th ed SM codex), so the actual wargear of the squad you have below:
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 CCWs and BPs, 1 Meltagun & 1 Power Weapon; 1 Neophyte w/ CCW and BP.
Would be:
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates, 1 Neophyte
(3) w/ CCW and Bolt Pistol
(1) w/ Meltagun, CCW and Bolt Pistol
(1) w/ Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol
(1 Neophyte) w/ CCW and BP.
Granted it's a small catch but by the melta-gunner keeping both his BP and CCW you are gaining one extra attack in combat (can't hurt).
Also, I've been wondering about your CC lists using the AAC vow. If you are camped on an objective, and an enemy can't get into assault with you as long as they can get within 6'' your obligated to charge them due to the ACC vow which could easily pull you off the objective. It would obviously take an evil general on the opposite side of the table to pull off such a dirty trick, but by leaving a single bolter in the unit you could rapid fire, preventing your unit from charging. This could also be accomplished using the point I noted above without reducing the squads combat efficiency in this way:
Without any upgrades your squad would look like this:
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates, 1 Neophyte
(4 Initiate) w/ CCW and Bolt Pistol
(1 Initiate) w/ Bolter
(1 Neophyte) w/ CCW and BP.
With upgrades (and by giving the bolter armed marine the "power weapon and bolt pistol" upgrade for 10 points) your squad would turn out like this:
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates, 1 Neophyte
(3 Initiate) w/ CCW and Bolt Pistol (1 Initiate) w/ CCW, Bolt Pistol, and Meltagun.
(1 Initiate) w/ Bolter, Power Weapon & Bolt Pistol
(1 Neophyte) w/ CCW and BP.
This gives you the maximum number of attacks, as well as the security of denying the game losing (albeit a slim chance, I imagine it's happened) charge due to AAC.
Lastly, I was wondering if you could look over a 1500 list I'm building for a local tournament, I've never used my BT's before and I was hoping for some insight, I know it's not super competitive, some items are included for fluff, or because I want to show off the model (such as the castellen) but how do you think it would do, and if you were to optimize it for a super competitive envrioment, what changes would you make.
(the castellen and the emperors champ run each with a crusader squad in an effort to make the assault terminators less of a rock unit (even though they remain a rock, just not quite as bad)
Thanks for the great site!
Nathan
| Black Templars 1500 |
Reply:
Hello Nathan!
First off, thanks for taking the time to email me. Yours is an email that I've been meaning to get to you, but haven't had time due to other obligations as I mentioned in my response email. Fortunately, now everything is back in order at least for a time, so I need to get caught up. And you are first in line!
As to your first point regarding the "special" weapon and the loss of their wargear. As much as I would love it to be as you say, the little stipulation in our codex on Page 30 under Army List Entries: Options notes that "Any model who takes an upgrade weapon loses the weapon he was originally armed with unless otherwise stated." That means that our models lose the BP/CCW's they are armed with if they take any other weapon. I'm glad you emailed me about it, because it avoids a potentially embarrassing moment at a tournament.
As for the forced charge into an enemy unit via AAC off an objective, you are correct. It is a very rare situation. However, while your way of avoiding this situation is plausible (and is one many players take), there is an alternative that I've been using. By making use of this method, you get to keep that precious extra attack in close combat. This work around involves firing at an unit other than the one my enemy parked nearby to pull me off the objective. If you shoot at another enemy unit, you have to charge that unit, not the one trying to pull you off the objective.
For example, you are sitting on an objective with a CC-oriented unit with BP/CCWs and a meltagun. Your opponent moved a squad (Squad A) within 6" of your unit, but chose to not assault. They also have a squad 15" away from your unit (Squad B). An option on your turn is to sit where you are, then target Squad B with your weapons. You're out of range, so you miss your shots. But because you shot at Squad B, you cannot declare a charge on Squad A. Good news right? However, you do lose the ability to put your shooting to good use, which could potentially make Squad A fall back. So its a calculated risk. I've considered why I do this and I couldn't come up with a good reason why I couldn't simply add a bolter to the unit. But for now, there are ways around that "evil WAAC opponent". ;)
Finally, the list. Overall, the list is fine as is for the most part. I don't think that the Terminators at this level are appropriate, as they are hard enough to put into 2k points. It leaves you a little weak elsewhere in the list, but it may give you some hard hitting power that some armies will be hard pressed to deal with. But some armies have melta in excess and will quickly disable that unit. Besides totally revamping the list by removing the Terminators, there are some tweaks that should be made:
* Drop the Storm Bolter from the Castellan if you can. It sounds to me as if this might not be able to be changed, but if so, I'd make the change. You cannot have both the Bolt Pistol and the Storm Bolter as detailed earlier in the response.
* Use the saved points to buy Frag Grenades for the Castellan (He should be attacking in initiative order at all times), as well as smoke launchers for the LRC. With so many points thrown into that rock unit, you need to give yourself as many opportunities for it to survive as you can.
* Instead of 4 LC, 1 TH/SS ratio for your Terminators, I'd highly recommend the 3 LC, 2 TH/SS ratio. This gives you superior durability in the event of forceful disembarking from the LRC, as well as increased survivability in CC. You will kill most things on the charge with only 3 LCs anyway and having 2 guys with TH's give you options verses MCs or vehicles such as dreadnoughts. Plus, when you win a combat, you'll be exposed to incoming fire, so the additional Storm Shield will come in handy.
Other than that, the list is fine. And good luck to you! :)
Marshal Laeroth
Hello Nathan!
First off, thanks for taking the time to email me. Yours is an email that I've been meaning to get to you, but haven't had time due to other obligations as I mentioned in my response email. Fortunately, now everything is back in order at least for a time, so I need to get caught up. And you are first in line!
As to your first point regarding the "special" weapon and the loss of their wargear. As much as I would love it to be as you say, the little stipulation in our codex on Page 30 under Army List Entries: Options notes that "Any model who takes an upgrade weapon loses the weapon he was originally armed with unless otherwise stated." That means that our models lose the BP/CCW's they are armed with if they take any other weapon. I'm glad you emailed me about it, because it avoids a potentially embarrassing moment at a tournament.
As for the forced charge into an enemy unit via AAC off an objective, you are correct. It is a very rare situation. However, while your way of avoiding this situation is plausible (and is one many players take), there is an alternative that I've been using. By making use of this method, you get to keep that precious extra attack in close combat. This work around involves firing at an unit other than the one my enemy parked nearby to pull me off the objective. If you shoot at another enemy unit, you have to charge that unit, not the one trying to pull you off the objective.
For example, you are sitting on an objective with a CC-oriented unit with BP/CCWs and a meltagun. Your opponent moved a squad (Squad A) within 6" of your unit, but chose to not assault. They also have a squad 15" away from your unit (Squad B). An option on your turn is to sit where you are, then target Squad B with your weapons. You're out of range, so you miss your shots. But because you shot at Squad B, you cannot declare a charge on Squad A. Good news right? However, you do lose the ability to put your shooting to good use, which could potentially make Squad A fall back. So its a calculated risk. I've considered why I do this and I couldn't come up with a good reason why I couldn't simply add a bolter to the unit. But for now, there are ways around that "evil WAAC opponent". ;)
Finally, the list. Overall, the list is fine as is for the most part. I don't think that the Terminators at this level are appropriate, as they are hard enough to put into 2k points. It leaves you a little weak elsewhere in the list, but it may give you some hard hitting power that some armies will be hard pressed to deal with. But some armies have melta in excess and will quickly disable that unit. Besides totally revamping the list by removing the Terminators, there are some tweaks that should be made:
* Drop the Storm Bolter from the Castellan if you can. It sounds to me as if this might not be able to be changed, but if so, I'd make the change. You cannot have both the Bolt Pistol and the Storm Bolter as detailed earlier in the response.
* Use the saved points to buy Frag Grenades for the Castellan (He should be attacking in initiative order at all times), as well as smoke launchers for the LRC. With so many points thrown into that rock unit, you need to give yourself as many opportunities for it to survive as you can.
* Instead of 4 LC, 1 TH/SS ratio for your Terminators, I'd highly recommend the 3 LC, 2 TH/SS ratio. This gives you superior durability in the event of forceful disembarking from the LRC, as well as increased survivability in CC. You will kill most things on the charge with only 3 LCs anyway and having 2 guys with TH's give you options verses MCs or vehicles such as dreadnoughts. Plus, when you win a combat, you'll be exposed to incoming fire, so the additional Storm Shield will come in handy.
Other than that, the list is fine. And good luck to you! :)
Marshal Laeroth
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