Email: Hey Laeroth (Bob),
I've gotten no less than 3 emails and a couple of Facebook messages recommending your blog via various real and/or internet friends. Rites of Battle also gets sent my way pretty frequently. I am always glad of it, because my friends are truly generous, trying to help me make the best possible army and actually HAVE FUN playing.
Anyway, I wanted to see if you'd be willing to look over my list. It kind of stinks to me, but I'm doing the best I can with 1) what I have and 2) a LOW 750 points.
If you don't mind, I would send an email with the list...
Thanks for all you do!
Reply: Hello!
I cannot be sure who your friends are, but let them know I appreciate their vote of confidence. I'm more than happy to help you as best as I can. Feel free to send the list. As I've mentioned before, I normally go for functionality over fluff, but that doesn't mean I don't have fun playing my armies. So if I know what type of list you're trying to build (your preferences, restrictions, likes/dislikes, etc), I'm pretty sure I can help you whip something up that you'll enjoy playing, while still being as good an army as we can get. :D
I've gotten no less than 3 emails and a couple of Facebook messages recommending your blog via various real and/or internet friends. Rites of Battle also gets sent my way pretty frequently. I am always glad of it, because my friends are truly generous, trying to help me make the best possible army and actually HAVE FUN playing.
Anyway, I wanted to see if you'd be willing to look over my list. It kind of stinks to me, but I'm doing the best I can with 1) what I have and 2) a LOW 750 points.
If you don't mind, I would send an email with the list...
Thanks for all you do!
Reply: Hello!
I cannot be sure who your friends are, but let them know I appreciate their vote of confidence. I'm more than happy to help you as best as I can. Feel free to send the list. As I've mentioned before, I normally go for functionality over fluff, but that doesn't mean I don't have fun playing my armies. So if I know what type of list you're trying to build (your preferences, restrictions, likes/dislikes, etc), I'm pretty sure I can help you whip something up that you'll enjoy playing, while still being as good an army as we can get. :D
Email: Bob,
I have a few goals when making these lists-
1: PLAY GAMES. I have been planning for so long, I just want to get an army on the table.
2: Be aware of my limitations. Both in terms of what figures I have as well as how much information I can handle- I'm getting close to overload with this huge influx of guys and considering an entirely different codex. I imagine I'll do SW stuff with pickup games, because I do want to learn them and see if I like them. However for league, I'm sticking to the Black Dudes =)
3. Be as WSYWIG as I can get. I know the guys I play with will be pretty fair on rules. I don't want to chump 'em on models.
I will get to fluffy/competitive later, when I have an EC and some CCW guys. I don't heave either at the moment.
Here we are:
HQ:
Chaplain, Master of Sanctity (Tank Hunter) -113
Attached Terminator Command Squad
A- Sergeant: Storm Bolter, Power weapon, Tank Hunter, Cru Seal (45)
B- Assault Cannon, Tank Hunter, Cru Seal (65)
C- Chainfist, Tankhunter, Cru Seal (50)
D- Assault Cannon, Tank Hunter (63)
Troop Slot A
6 Initiates- Bolt Pistol, CCW
1 Initiate Multimelta
5 Neophytes - 172
Troop Slot B
6 Initiates- Bolt Pistol, CCW
1 Initiate -Plasma Cannon
4 Neophytes Bolt pistol, CCW
1 Neophyte, Shotgun - 182
-Dedicated Rhino, Dozer blades, HK missile, Searchlight, smoke -59
Total should be 749.
I THINK this should give me some good anti-mech and some "OKAY" cc options. Not perfect, but it's a start and it's a low cost list.
What say you?
Reply: Hello!
There is something that I noticed right away about your list, that unfortunately, cannot be avoided if you want to play. At the 750 points limit, you are FORCED into taking an Emperor's Champion, whether you want one or not. Even if you don't use all of the points up, you still got to take him if that is the limit. So if you have just a normal Space Marine model with a power sword (it looks like you have one, though I'd probably use one of the Captains w/ Chainswords...it'll be easier to tell the difference), that will work just fine for now. At least until you get the real one or make your own. I think I'll address your points real quick first, before we get into a list.
1) With such a huge pile of marines, you should have no problems playing games. You'll want to upgrade your "motorpool" (more tanks/transports) sooner than later, but it isn't a huge deal at the small points levels.
2) Yikes! That's no good. Hopefully we can get you on the right track so you stick with the dudes in black. :)
3) Ah, I see. Just like I don't want any punches being pulled in a tournament setting; my opponent better play to the best of their ability and I'll do the same. I don't want to feel like I got a cheap win. :D
Ok, on to the list. As I mentioned, we have to add in the EC right from the start, so that throws the wrench into your plans. :( Also, your points totals are a bit off. For example, the Rhino listed actually costs 74 points, not 59. The Command Squad is not entirely legal either (common mistake, no worries). The unit takes the upgrades as a whole, not separately. So when you put crusader seals on the unit, everyone gets them (and pays for them). The same with Tank Hunters.
All is not lost. You are darn close, but 750 points is pretty limiting. As is your model list, now that I'm taking a look at it. LOTS of stuff in there, but you'll need some bits to make optimal units. That can come later though. You've got a bunch of good ideas in there for the points limit, so we'll see what we can do in that theme. Here is what I was thinking for you and after I'll tell you why:
A) Emperor's Champion (Captain w/ Chainsword) with the Accept Any Challenge vow -- [140 points]
B) Tactical Terminators Squad (5x terminators total): 2 w/ Assault Cannons and Power Fists; 3 w/ Storm Bolters and Power Fists. All 5 have Tank Hunters -- [255 points]
C) Crusader Squad #1 (7x initiates, 2x neophytes/scouts total. Emperor's Champion attaches here): 1 w/ Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, 1 w/ Flamer, 5 w/ Bolt Pistols and CCWs. 2 Neophytes/Scouts with Bolt Pistols/CCWs. -- [201 points]
D) Dedicated (For CS #1) Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers -- [53 points]
E) Crusader Squad #2 (5x initiates): 1 w/ Lascannon, 1 w/ Flamer, 3 w/ Bolters. -- [101 points]
F) Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter -- [50 points]
Total: 747 points
Ok, so going with your "theme", we want to use the terminators. They are spendy at this points level, but there is a good chance your opponent doesn't have much that can deal with them. So you'll want them to Deep Strike into the game from Reserves, preferably behind enemy vehicles and then blast it away. Or if there are no vehicles in range to fire at, you can use those Storm Bolters and Assault Cannons on infantry. They'll do well in that role as well. You could also assault with them if you choose to, but remember, they'll strike at last at Initiative 1 because of the power fists. However, if you sent them at enemy unit that isn't designed for close combat, the terminators will likely kill them easily enough.
The require Emperor's Champion will be talking the "Accept Any Challenge" vow to give our units Preferred Enemy in close combat. In addition, he'll be jumping into the larger Crusader Squad (9 guys, +EC will fit into the Rhino) to help out. They will be your dedicated close combat unit and can be used to guard your other Crusader Squad, or go on the offensive. The Neophytes are taken as ablative wounds (poor guys don't live long) in that squad. They'll ride in the Rhino with smoke launchers. I know that it is modeled with all of that other stuff, but you don't HAVE to use them.
The other Crusader Squad is your "main" anti-mech option. Its a smaller squad, but the Lascannon should give you a decent chance to open stuff up while you're waiting on the terminators to come down. Ideally that squad also wants a plasma gun dude with them for additional anti-mech, but since you don't have a model for that, a flamer will have to do. You'll put this squad somewhere in your deployment zone, in cover, away from your enemy (preferably on an objective) and just shoot all game. Finally, the Land Speeder is there for some additional firepower since there were extra points in the list.
Or, here is another possible list for you:
A) Emperors Champion -- 140
B) Dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, Storm Bolter, and Extra Armor (don't have to represent on model) -- 115
C) Crusader Squad #1 (7x initiates, 2x neophytes/scouts total. Emperor's Champion attaches here): 1 initiate w/ Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, 1 w/ Flamer, 5 w/ Bolt Pistols and CCWs. 2 Neophytes/Scouts with Bolt Pistols/CCWs. -- 201
D) Dedicated (For CS #1) Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers -- 53
E) Crusader Squad #2 (5x initiates, 1x neophyte/scout): 1 w/ Lascannon, 1 w/ Flamer, 3 w/ Bolters. Scout w/ Shotgun -- 111
F) Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter -- 50
G) Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon Turret and Lascannon Sponsons -- 125
Total: 747
Both lists have their pros and cons. The first list has stronger CC ability, but the 2nd list is far superior in the anti-mech firepower department. Either should do well enough for you, so its really up to your preferred playstyle if you choose to use one of these lists. Even if you don't, remember you have to take an Emperor's Champion if you're creating your own list. :)
Just let me know if you have questions or whatever. I'll do my best to get back to you as soon as I can. Hopefully I was of assistance to you, without stressing you all out. Good luck to you in your games! :)
I have a few goals when making these lists-
1: PLAY GAMES. I have been planning for so long, I just want to get an army on the table.
2: Be aware of my limitations. Both in terms of what figures I have as well as how much information I can handle- I'm getting close to overload with this huge influx of guys and considering an entirely different codex. I imagine I'll do SW stuff with pickup games, because I do want to learn them and see if I like them. However for league, I'm sticking to the Black Dudes =)
3. Be as WSYWIG as I can get. I know the guys I play with will be pretty fair on rules. I don't want to chump 'em on models.
I will get to fluffy/competitive later, when I have an EC and some CCW guys. I don't heave either at the moment.
Here we are:
HQ:
Chaplain, Master of Sanctity (Tank Hunter) -113
Attached Terminator Command Squad
A- Sergeant: Storm Bolter, Power weapon, Tank Hunter, Cru Seal (45)
B- Assault Cannon, Tank Hunter, Cru Seal (65)
C- Chainfist, Tankhunter, Cru Seal (50)
D- Assault Cannon, Tank Hunter (63)
Troop Slot A
6 Initiates- Bolt Pistol, CCW
1 Initiate Multimelta
5 Neophytes - 172
Troop Slot B
6 Initiates- Bolt Pistol, CCW
1 Initiate -Plasma Cannon
4 Neophytes Bolt pistol, CCW
1 Neophyte, Shotgun - 182
-Dedicated Rhino, Dozer blades, HK missile, Searchlight, smoke -59
Total should be 749.
I THINK this should give me some good anti-mech and some "OKAY" cc options. Not perfect, but it's a start and it's a low cost list.
What say you?
Reply: Hello!
There is something that I noticed right away about your list, that unfortunately, cannot be avoided if you want to play. At the 750 points limit, you are FORCED into taking an Emperor's Champion, whether you want one or not. Even if you don't use all of the points up, you still got to take him if that is the limit. So if you have just a normal Space Marine model with a power sword (it looks like you have one, though I'd probably use one of the Captains w/ Chainswords...it'll be easier to tell the difference), that will work just fine for now. At least until you get the real one or make your own. I think I'll address your points real quick first, before we get into a list.
1) With such a huge pile of marines, you should have no problems playing games. You'll want to upgrade your "motorpool" (more tanks/transports) sooner than later, but it isn't a huge deal at the small points levels.
2) Yikes! That's no good. Hopefully we can get you on the right track so you stick with the dudes in black. :)
3) Ah, I see. Just like I don't want any punches being pulled in a tournament setting; my opponent better play to the best of their ability and I'll do the same. I don't want to feel like I got a cheap win. :D
Ok, on to the list. As I mentioned, we have to add in the EC right from the start, so that throws the wrench into your plans. :( Also, your points totals are a bit off. For example, the Rhino listed actually costs 74 points, not 59. The Command Squad is not entirely legal either (common mistake, no worries). The unit takes the upgrades as a whole, not separately. So when you put crusader seals on the unit, everyone gets them (and pays for them). The same with Tank Hunters.
All is not lost. You are darn close, but 750 points is pretty limiting. As is your model list, now that I'm taking a look at it. LOTS of stuff in there, but you'll need some bits to make optimal units. That can come later though. You've got a bunch of good ideas in there for the points limit, so we'll see what we can do in that theme. Here is what I was thinking for you and after I'll tell you why:
A) Emperor's Champion (Captain w/ Chainsword) with the Accept Any Challenge vow -- [140 points]
B) Tactical Terminators Squad (5x terminators total): 2 w/ Assault Cannons and Power Fists; 3 w/ Storm Bolters and Power Fists. All 5 have Tank Hunters -- [255 points]
C) Crusader Squad #1 (7x initiates, 2x neophytes/scouts total. Emperor's Champion attaches here): 1 w/ Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, 1 w/ Flamer, 5 w/ Bolt Pistols and CCWs. 2 Neophytes/Scouts with Bolt Pistols/CCWs. -- [201 points]
D) Dedicated (For CS #1) Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers -- [53 points]
E) Crusader Squad #2 (5x initiates): 1 w/ Lascannon, 1 w/ Flamer, 3 w/ Bolters. -- [101 points]
F) Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter -- [50 points]
Total: 747 points
Ok, so going with your "theme", we want to use the terminators. They are spendy at this points level, but there is a good chance your opponent doesn't have much that can deal with them. So you'll want them to Deep Strike into the game from Reserves, preferably behind enemy vehicles and then blast it away. Or if there are no vehicles in range to fire at, you can use those Storm Bolters and Assault Cannons on infantry. They'll do well in that role as well. You could also assault with them if you choose to, but remember, they'll strike at last at Initiative 1 because of the power fists. However, if you sent them at enemy unit that isn't designed for close combat, the terminators will likely kill them easily enough.
The require Emperor's Champion will be talking the "Accept Any Challenge" vow to give our units Preferred Enemy in close combat. In addition, he'll be jumping into the larger Crusader Squad (9 guys, +EC will fit into the Rhino) to help out. They will be your dedicated close combat unit and can be used to guard your other Crusader Squad, or go on the offensive. The Neophytes are taken as ablative wounds (poor guys don't live long) in that squad. They'll ride in the Rhino with smoke launchers. I know that it is modeled with all of that other stuff, but you don't HAVE to use them.
The other Crusader Squad is your "main" anti-mech option. Its a smaller squad, but the Lascannon should give you a decent chance to open stuff up while you're waiting on the terminators to come down. Ideally that squad also wants a plasma gun dude with them for additional anti-mech, but since you don't have a model for that, a flamer will have to do. You'll put this squad somewhere in your deployment zone, in cover, away from your enemy (preferably on an objective) and just shoot all game. Finally, the Land Speeder is there for some additional firepower since there were extra points in the list.
Or, here is another possible list for you:
A) Emperors Champion -- 140
B) Dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, Storm Bolter, and Extra Armor (don't have to represent on model) -- 115
C) Crusader Squad #1 (7x initiates, 2x neophytes/scouts total. Emperor's Champion attaches here): 1 initiate w/ Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, 1 w/ Flamer, 5 w/ Bolt Pistols and CCWs. 2 Neophytes/Scouts with Bolt Pistols/CCWs. -- 201
D) Dedicated (For CS #1) Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers -- 53
E) Crusader Squad #2 (5x initiates, 1x neophyte/scout): 1 w/ Lascannon, 1 w/ Flamer, 3 w/ Bolters. Scout w/ Shotgun -- 111
F) Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter -- 50
G) Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon Turret and Lascannon Sponsons -- 125
Total: 747
Both lists have their pros and cons. The first list has stronger CC ability, but the 2nd list is far superior in the anti-mech firepower department. Either should do well enough for you, so its really up to your preferred playstyle if you choose to use one of these lists. Even if you don't, remember you have to take an Emperor's Champion if you're creating your own list. :)
Just let me know if you have questions or whatever. I'll do my best to get back to you as soon as I can. Hopefully I was of assistance to you, without stressing you all out. Good luck to you in your games! :)
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