6th Edition is here!

6/30/2012

Not only do we have a new game edition to peruse, but the FAQs for each army have been dropped as well. Sounds like my sources are pretty darn accurate after all, after what they told me was in the BT FAQs and how they would interact with our armies. Adds a little bit more trust into the pot. :)

Needless to say, I've been warning people about the change to AAC for a couple weeks now on B&C and everyone thought we were going to keep Preferred Enemy as it was. Sad face. No way that was going to happen. I've also been saying that Chaplains are going to gain in popularity as a result of the change to AAC. Now perhaps people will realize why? I'm hoping no one made any purchases after I warned several times not to do. I am personally a little sad to see the end of our old Drop Pod Assault rules though. That was something I had no info on, so I was holding out hopes... :O

Anyway, I've gotten through the rulebook and I'll probably spend a few more hours re-reading it to get a better feel for it. The FAQs weren't quite as damaging to us as I thought they'd be, but still, there will be quite a few Black Templar's players who won't be happy about the changes. I've already got a few ideas about how the new edition interacts with our codex and that will be up later in the day.

Stay tuned! :D

11 Comments

Algesan link

6/30/2012 03:39:46 am

I just got to the computer and was busily saving FAQs to the hard drive and jumped over here to notify you. Well, at least now I can start army planning...

6/30/2012 05:01:37 am

First cut: Mainly status quo. Drop and Deep Strike lists took a fairly hefty hit by forcing us into vanilla Marine Drop Pod Assault rules. Considering the issues from the obvious lack of attention to detail by GW and synergy from other changes, both types of lists are probably well gutted.

The misprint in the 6th rules about the EC being S4 is covered by the Black Sword Entry.

AACNMTO just became fairly useless, 50pts for +1A? Only when charging and only when you don't multicharge? Absolutely useless when you are charged? Hatred would have been a better choice for a nerf.

Witch looks like the only useful vow now. Seriously devastating change there, pushing us even further into the pure gunline mode.

Pure Terminator lists did get a big boost, especially with the new rule almost requiring (I'd have to double check this) a Commander or Chaplain for a second HQ.

I've seen enough stupidity, people will claim that this FAQ modifies the codex directly, not the codex as modified by the previous FAQ. GW helped that by cut 'n pasting in some of the rules changes in the last FAQ and not others. IOW, Cyclones and Typhoons go back to the old ways of single shot. Be ready for it.

Sheer stupidity: No cost changes not in the previous FAQ, no adding of grenades to squads, leaving our Drop Pod at BS2 (yes, I'm quibbling here, but attention to detail would have fixed this stuff), no access to other equipment that everyone but Dark Angels gets. Our "veterans" are just joe blow Marines with overpriced options to "build" them up as veterans. Twenty-nine point vets just don't cut it.

Gah, time to go look and see what I have. Best guess? I'm going to end up with at most four Troops and more likely three. Might squeeze a little foot one out for backfield objectives. No suicide melta squad options. At least they took away "Kill Them All" so I can go rationally about Cycloning stuff to death.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

6/30/2012 02:21:45 pm

Aye, the BT Drop Pod lists have seen the end of their days. Its sad, really. As I thought this was a bigger boon than Preferred Enemy was. There really was no good defense against the Defensive Drop Pod list. I really wish I had taken it to Nova Open last year... :'(

I don't believe that AAC is totally worthless now. Is it less powerful than Preferred Enemy? Certainly. While I agree that it probably shouldn't be priced at 50 points, GW isn't known for enacting the most through playtesting on its FAQs. The Vow has its uses, but even before 6th Edition, it was getting more and more common to use "Abhor the Witch" in our armies.

The fact that there were no core changes to things like points is a little irritating, but not unexpected. I thought they would have added grenades to our units, but it seems that was overlooked as well. As well as the availability to the normal range of wargear options...which we don't have.

In the end, we'll get it worked out. Our creed as Black Templars players has been to adapt and overcome for over 7 years. This won't be the last time. :P

6/30/2012 06:26:53 am

I'll be commenting on your thing in just a little bit Algesan. Trying to finalize my Nova list. :D

6/30/2012 06:36:52 am

Well, I'm going to be documenting my "thinking" over here for BT. You are more centralized and probably have a higher readership than I do. Oh, we are going to be stepping all over each other for a few days.

6/30/2012 06:35:09 am

Get an email off to your buddy, the more I think about it, the quicker it needs to be clearly stated that Cyclone & Typhoon MLs are Heavy 2 weapons. Otherwise, I'm working my way through a modified list, including an Aegis (100 pts with quad gun) line to stick a Las/Plas squad in. A Bastion with quad gun (125) would be even more fun since I could stick two squads in there, but we need one or the other to gain Skyfire since our FAQ does not include the "Flakk missile" option for any of our missile launchers.

Although, I really hate to say it, my Necron list with a bit of tweaking looks darned nasty. Assaulting with a Command Barge gives D6 S6 AP- I10 automatic hits on the charge! The Overlord riding it also gains +1AS to 2+...W00T!

Nikephoros link

6/30/2012 07:01:53 am

I obviously have a ton of thoughts but I'll sum up what I think about a few things...

1. Agreed with above that Abhor is the only vow that matters now. AAC only seems useful in a list where you know you'll get the charge which is, like, a double rock Land Raider list.

2. I'm certainly not seeing anything that would make me want to change from my 5th edition gun line list. If anything, our terminators got better so bringing double cyclone squads is even more of a no-brainer.

3. As written, we can't bring allies since you need your 2nd HQ to be a warlord. The only other interpretation I can see is that you can just not have a warlord and run an EC by himself? My guess is that is how it will shake out but for now I dunno how it will work. I'm bring a Castellan very much against my will until someone shows me that a warlord is not compulsory.

My initial 6E list is right now...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmB39y9xwxIRdEd3SUZHd19vci1FUHlQby13ZTNGVnc

6/30/2012 11:29:11 am

Sorry for the delay, been getting assailed by emails all day long. :O

1) Abhor was a great vow before, but it is even better now that there will be Psykers EVERYWHERE. That also gives us a little bit of a push forward with our shorter-ranged dudes like dual-AC Terminators. But I wouldn't say that AAC is terrible. There is uses for it, such as the example you gave. If you plan on making a Black Tide list, it can be useful (as I envision foot lists making more of an appearance)...as well as if you're using our Terminators/"new" bikers.

2) I'm concerned with the ability of dual-CMLs to do damage to 2+ armor, as well as the loss of ability against AV14. I think the higher rate of fire, plus rending, on the AC's makes it a better choice for us now. Especially because it can quickly eat those hull points off. But if not, I still have my CMLs so it isn't such a huge deal to revert over.

3) I see you've seen the list (looking over at YTTH), so I don't need to comment on this one. :D

6/30/2012 07:40:18 am

Well, here is my first list run:
1xEmperor's Champion – Abhor The Witch [110]
1x Castellan, SS/LC, Tank Hunter, Frag [109]
1x Terminator Cmd (2xCML/SB/PF, SB/PF, SS/PW), Tank Hunter
[237]
3x Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 3xSB/PF, Tank Hunter)
[795]
1x Crusader (5/2, Melta, BP/PF, 3xBP/CCW, 2xBP/CCW (Neo), Frags) Mounted in Rhino w/ Smoke & XA [190]
1x Crusader (5/0, LasCannon, Plasmagun, 3xBolters) [101]
1x Crusader (5/0, Melta, Bolters) mounted in Rhino w/ Smoke & XA
[148]
3x Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML) [210]
1x Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad Cannon [100]

8 TH Cyclones, 3 Typhoons, 3 Heavy Bolters, 1 Lascannon, 1 Quad Cannon w/ Skyfire & Interceptor, 14-15 KP (VP) depending on the status of the fortification

Short on Troops, but can be considered a "Kill Them All" list. I've won a fairly large percentage of objective games by eliminating all enemy scoring units while protecting one of my own. One option would be to eliminate a Speeder to give me one double Speeder squadron and then pull the excess points out of that assault rigged Crusader squad to put together another Las/Plas squad or even possibly a plain Bolter squad or two on foot to walk across to objectives.

I would give up some points if MVB breaks down (as some of us are urging) to allow both Aegis & Bastions, while banning Fortresses. Of course, then everyone will have one.

Fairly straightforward list there, I'd have taken HB Razorbacks if GW had actually given a crap about writing this FAQ to bring the codex in line. This is a blunt instrument that marches into the center shooting then applies the fist to the face.

Although I'm serious about needing it in writing about the Cyclones and Typhoons. The fact that they included the Deathwind ML as a FAQ change gives plenty of scope for a "codex overrules rulebook" on the other two MLs.

Nike, that is a fairly nasty looking list. The biggest problem I see is the lack of AA firepower. Yes, one quad gun isn't much, but it is something, along with giving me a way to "corral" one objective with a scoring unit on top of it.

Nathan

6/30/2012 07:57:58 am

I can't see how the Black Templar faq is anything other than a gigantic nerf in basically every way. There was basically no way to play Templars as they're written, that is as an assault and close combat oriented army, before and it's gotten nothing but worse.

The Emperor's Champion can't be our general anymore, the Black Sword is garbage now, Helbrect and Grimaldus are still garbage, we're losing army wide preferred enemy, we don't get the crusader special rule (seriously wtf?!?), we still can't take assault terminators as a command unit, we can't use neophytes as ablative wounds nearly as easily now, we lost our special drop pod rules, Land Raiders seem way more vulnerable now, and we basically forced into a terminator heavy gunline to even play but we don't have anything with skyfire as far as I can see (except fortifications that are available to everyone). Oh and we really have no good psykic defense.

Now it seems like our terminators are getting a boost (as are everyone's) but our assault terminators took a HUGE hit losing preferred enemy, but other than that I don't see any positives for Templars.

I hate to be all. "the sky is falling," and I haven't read the core rulebook yet so some of my assumptions may be off but as I understand it now they took a fringe army that could barely compete and made it significantly worse. If I wanted to play a fucking gunline I'd have bought IG.

And we STILL don't get bolters and pistols or grenades without paying. Hooray!

6/30/2012 08:52:42 am

Nathan, I don't think it was intended to be a nerf, it was more just being ignored. That being said, I consider an Initiate standing at point blank range unloading a bolter clip at an enemy just as much "CC" as I do engaging with a chainsword. The problem is that GW refuses adamantly to recruit players as unpaid consultants under NDAs to help with development and error checking.

True, most players would probably "leak", but not all. I've done that kind of unpaid work before and if you have a clue, it is a whole lot better to chat with the paid developers than to go scream the sky is falling in public. However, that isn't something we can control. I will point out that we can take the new Stormtalon flyer IIRC, which will give us access to Skyfire.without a fortification.

Back to biz...my second cut, with IG allies:
1x Emperor's Champion – Abhor The Witch [110]
3x Terminator (2xCyclone ML/SB/PF, 3xSB/PF) Tank Hunter [795]
2x Crusader (5/0, LasCannon, Plasmagun, 3xBolters) [202]
3x Land Speeder Typhoon (HB/Typhoon ML) [210]
1x Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad Cannon [100]

Allies
1x IG BN Command Squad mounted in Chimera [50]
1x IG Platoon (Cmd Squad, 2xInfantry Squads w/ 1xMg) mounted in Chimeras [160]
4x Chimeras w/ Multi-lasers, Heavy Bolters & Heavy Stubbers [260]
1x Heavy Weapon Teams w/ Mortars [60]
1x Special Weapons Team (1xMg, 5xLasgun) [45]

Total for this incarnation: 1992 points. 19-20 KP/VP

Variation on a theme and the infamous using Allies to plug a hole, namely the lack of Troops in my previous list. In this case, the BN Command Squad with the Mortar HWT will hold the Aegis area (allowing the BN Cmdr to issue orders to the HWT and the HWT being a scoring unit) and using the other four Troop squads to load up in Chimeras and be the mobile scoring elements. My two Las/Plas squads can set up as needed to provide covering fire, work on Quarters or be ready for last minute runs to objectives.

Note the slime around the BT FAQ. The EC does still qualify as our HQ choice, but cannot fulfill being the "Warlord", so I use the allied BN Commander as the "Warlord"...

In a lot of ways I'm a lot more comfortable with this list. Yes, I gave up a squad of Terminators and two Cyclones, but I gained four Multi-lasers, Heavy Bolters & Heavy Stubbers as well as three Mortars capable of firing at targets out of LOS. There is also a lot of flex in this list for points. Once we get past BN Cmd, Plt Cmd, 2x Infantry and at least three Chimeras, it is wide open.

6th Edition is here!

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