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Black Templars State of the Union:  I'll call it a success!

7/1/2012

20 Comments

 
*** I'm going to assume you have the 6th Edition rulebook and have seen the BT FAQ for the following article.  ***

For context, I highly recommend you click this link to a thread on B&C and read it.  For those that don't want to do that, I'll summarize for you.  A large crop of the Black Templars, and pretty much every non-BT player, believe that the Black Templars got nerfed into the ground with the release of 6th Edition and the resulting FAQs.  A knock-out punch, of sorts.  This is primarily due to the change to the "Accept Any Challenge" Vow from Preferred Enemy, to the new Rage.  In addition, the transport nerf which disallows charges the turn a unit disembarks (unless its an Assault Vehicle), looked like the end of close combat in Black Templars armies.


WRONG!!!


That's just the thing. It hasn't deteriorated at all, its all an illusion. Just seems that way, with the loss of a Black Templars staple: Preferred Enemy. We've not had a rule set without it before. However, that doesn't mean we're worse off. Our image was just imprinted in the fact that "Accept Any Challenge" meant close combat. It gave us our image, even if the reality of it was poor (unfortunately). Put bluntly, it was a crutch for players not wanting to explore other options.  I'm not convinced that some of the anger everyone is feeling, isn't due to the fact that we didn't keep Preferred Enemy and receive a FAQ that allowed us to use it in the shooting phase as well. Disappointment hurts, but don't let it cloud your vision of something else.

Do I believe that using Allies is a more balanced way of playing Black Templars in 6th Edition?  Sure.  But did CC just give its last breath of air?  Hardly.  In fact, I would argue that for the first time in two editions, close combat actually stands as a legitimate alternative to gunline/hybrid BT lists.

The change from Preferred Enemy to Rage, is only a slight nerf to our CC capabilities. I'll elaborate. Tell me, what were we effective fighting with our Preferred Enemy buffed units (excepting Terminators)? Basically things that didn't have power weapons, featured poor armor saves and/or toughness values, or simply did not have the size to win a combat against us. Even then, we required the charge to get the maximum amount of attacks on our opponent to make the best use of PE. Rage gives another attack on the charge. PE used to act in a similar fashion in that it essentially gave us "more" attacks to hit the enemy with. So let's do the math. How many unsaved wounds does a normal BP/CCW Initiate do against a normal MEQ with the old Preferred Enemy? 0.375 wounds. How about the new Rage, with the same setup? 0.333 wounds. There is hardly a noticeable difference at all. Its so small (0.042 wounds), you'd never notice it on the battlefield.

As I explained above, Rage is only a tiny statistical fraction worse than the old Preferred Enemy was. Now that we are required to take another HQ besides the Emperor's Champion, we're stuck with either a Chaplain or a Commander. In the old rules, the Commander was a better choice as it gave LD to our lowly Crusaders so they could pass Righteous Zeal and Kill Them All. While RZ still exists, we don't have KTA to deal with so he's less useful. Likewise, in the old rules, a Chaplain was worthless as we already had re-rolls in close combat. Now, with our new AAC Vow, we don't get those re-rolls anymore. Add in the fact that Rage only affects charges, and you can see the synergy between the Chaplain and the new AAC.

What statistics cannot account for, however, is damage potential. Rage has higher upside, as it gave you more attacks.  Whereas the old PE simply allowed you to re-roll the ones you already had. Even before, with PE, our Crusader squads were a sorry excuse for a dedicated CC unit by themselves. They required an IC to tag along or help.  Power Fists had only 2 attacks on the charge previously. Now they have 3 attacks. Which one do you think I'd prefer to have? Damn straight I want Rage. While it won't affect the subsequent rounds, we already know that charging a single unit into another is folly right? Overwhelming force prevails in CC-oriented armies.  Even your opponent knows this, so they'll charge opportune targets.  That is where Rage falls short, as it doesn't do anything if our forces don't get the charge.

However, I have to ask a serious question: unless its a terminator squad (or barring some devious strategic move), who purposefully places their units in such a fashion so they get charged by their opponent? If its a unit of ours that will obviously win a combat, a smart opponent will avoid it anyway. Why would they charge something they won't kill? Nine times out of ten, when an opponent charges you, its with an unit that will kill ours with ease. Just like how we should be doing to them. Having the old Preferred Enemy won't stop them killing us. If we're lucky, we'd get to put some attacks back on them, but do you really think it'll matter in the end? They just charged us with TH/SS terminators. Or Thunderwolf Cavalry. Or Incubi. Or Grey Knights wielding a billion power weapons. Just a few of the many dedicated CC units that will maul our Crusaders without thinking twice. Preferred Enemy or Rage, it won't matter.

Close combat units act like Alpha Strike armies: they want to do enormous amounts of damage and then quickly move on. There is only so much time to get into CC in a game. It makes no sense that we should try to charge an unit that we cannot reasonably expect to kill in a maximum of two player turns. Why waste the damage potential of an unit in a stand-still combat? The only good that can happen is that both units get ground down, making both inefficient. That is why we use either A) units with lots of power weapons/thunder hammers/lightning claws/etc or B) use multiple units to kill a target quickly. Even with our old PE, if we got into 2nd round of combat, we were going to be there for a long time as we likely took losses ourselves, causing our unit to lose efficiency. That was key to running a successful CC-oriented army in 5th Edition -- making sure you didn't get stuck in combat to a 2nd/3rd round. It hasn't changed now that 6th Edition has arrived.

The game has evolved. It started in 5th Edition and I tried to teach players this. We need to change with it. If you're going to get into close combat, make sure you have something that is going to kill stuff quickly. And if the dice are against you, they need to be durable enough to survive the retaliatory attacks. What does that leave us with? Terminators and IC's. Yes, we do have to purchase IC's to "create" CC units. It can get expensive to do this, especially with multiple HQs. I was against it in 5th Edition, preferring only the EC as my sole HQ. But 6th Edition has changed that. We need to take a Warlord and the Emperor's Champion isn't it. So whether we want to or not, we have to buy either a Commander or a Chaplain. Its no longer optional. So we might as well make the most of the requirement don't you think? I don't advocate trying to make sub-par CC units into good CC units. Its a waste of precious resources. Use what we have to make our already good CC stuff, even better.

The fact of the matter is that if you're playing your army right, few opponent's should survive your initial assaults. I don't care what army you're playing. Unless there is some tactical reason for it, the point of charging is to kill your opponent and to do it quickly. What Rage has done is give our already effective units the ability to do it even better (when paired with our required HQ). It also gave units that were close to that threshold, just enough extra punch to be able to say the same (again, when paired with our required HQ). Does that mean we need an HQ for every unit? Absolutely not. Our Terminators never needed them. It was actually of a waste of points and overkill. They can still do the same thing now, with Rage. Give your Chaplains to our other "potential" CC units with new rules. Triple-power weapon Bikers. Assault Squads. 13+ man Crusader squads.

The thing with the Rhinos/Razorbacks? Its not really a nerf. Well, it "is" in a bubble, but not really. Why? Because every other armies' transports act the exact same way. They all get hurt by the same thing. However, Rhinos are MUCH faster than they were before. More mobile. Better at contesting and more durable against shooting. They synergize much more effectively with embarked shooty units.  And guess what? Only the Blood Angels can field numerous Land Raiders like we can. Those aren't nerfed, they are buffed through the roof.

Our reputation hasn't diminished at all. Its a travesty that everyone believes we got nerfed into the ground. We are, at worst, the same as we were in 5th Edition. At best, we got a significant buff to certain units which can make us the CC-oriented army that everyone wants.
20 Comments
Iblis
6/30/2012 08:22:18 pm

Hey there,greetings from germany:) just want to inform you that the verman bt codex faq uses the typhoon rules of the latest 5. Codex faq.there had been discussion on b&c about that:)

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Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link
7/1/2012 02:23:58 pm

Aye, I fully suspect that GW will edit the FAQs shortly to make corrections to their errors. I'm not too concerned right now, as most of my lists don't even have them. lol!

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Nathan
6/30/2012 08:54:48 pm

Excellent post! I got really sick of hearing people say crusader squads "kicked ass" I'm close combat. Your analysis is dead on as usual.

Can you go into detail about how Land Raiders got a buff? On first read it seems to me that they're more fragile than ever since they're not only suceptable to te ever present melta fire but also being glanced into an early grave by weight of fire.

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Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link
7/1/2012 02:29:05 pm

Yeah, it was a battle all 5th Edition. And I can get the feeling that it's going to be a fight here in 6th too. But to be fair, I think a lot of players got the hint the first time around. Its the super stubborn ones that are the tough sell.

Eventually, they'll come around. Experience doesn't lie. Unless, of course, that experience was earned playing against Power Puff Girls. ;)

And yes, I will be in a future post. For now, you can check out Stelek's analysis on the topic below:

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/07/understanding-6th-why-land-raiders-work-again/

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Mitthurin
6/30/2012 09:12:18 pm

Unless there is something I am missing with power axes we could potentially get S6 I1 A1+1 initiates with Suffer Not. Comes at the expense of I3 for the rest of the army (or I4 for IC's) but it's cheap reliable AP2 that accepts that we won't go before the xenos but that we can wound all armies easier with our basic troops. Also boosts our double assault cannon termies when they hit cc with tanks or monstrous creatures.

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Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link
7/1/2012 02:21:40 pm

The only problem with that is, do we have access to enough power axes to make it worthwhile? I don't think we do.

I personally prefer to go the Powerfist route, as that gives us a reliable way to deal with vehicles as well (since its easier to hurt them in CC).

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Nikephoros
7/1/2012 02:25:26 am

Plus we have good things to come. There are two USR (Crusader and Zealot) that are clearly hints at our future codex.

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Algesan link
7/1/2012 02:31:57 am

Marshal Laeroth is correct about one thing, "pure" CC was dead in 5th. I can tell tales about my TLC + TH/SS FC Assault Terminators, like how they were kept at WS1 for four turns but still managed to butcher three 'Nid MCs and a pack of Zoans. Glorious, Awesome, Schweeeet! Or I can tell you of the time they got butchered by a pack of Genestealers and some little jumping things, although they crippled both units. Or when they spent their entire game slogging around the board getting shot to ribbons by Dark Eldar. I spent 215 points in my list for an ablative unit that rarely got to do much but die gloriously while slogging around the board or suicide Deep Striking into the enemy rear. Mostly they got their points back, but being the primary bullet sponge of the army was their main use. This, from what was one of the most deadly CC units in 40K. Now, like AACNMTO, they aren't worth taking, except as Smurf Marine TH/SS bots.

I agree, this isn't the "death" of the Templars, but unless GW gets its head out of its shorts on some of its "oopsies", they lost some of their attractiveness.

Rage is nowhere near close to the old PE except in certain narrow situations. I'm sorry that your opponents don't seem to deal with it, but I'm used to getting charged by my enemies if they can, especially my Assault Terminators. Why? -1S, -1A, -1I Need another reason?

PE was both an offensive AND defensive buff. Rage is a narrow offensive buff that....ummmm......errrr.......BLOOD CLAWS get.

Take from someone else that was using their THDC Terminators aggressively before we got the anti-power sword buff. You can keep Rage, Hatred would have been better. It isn't so much the skill as the synergy with "disordered" assaults where we don't get jack. Assault Terminators who were glorious in the 3xTLC,2xTH/SS setup with Furious Charge are no longer one of the most dangerous CC units in the game that I can use to butcher most anything and wreck any "big" CC unit thrown at me. What is worse, even without Rage, we just lost 50% of CC our attack power against vehicles, with Rage it would be 100%. Gee, no more shooting up a squad that jumped out of a transport, slamming into the remnants with a 75%+ hit rate and detailing the guy with the PF to take out the transport. Bleh.

Rage can be useful, Rage can have its place, but even in 5th, if you sat there and let Blood Claws charge you for +2A instead of you charging them, I'm surprised.

I charge with Necrons! Why? Better to take 21 swings from that pistol/CCW Marine squad than 31, more of my boys will survive to swing back at I2...oh and we will have twice as many swings to swing.

From PE to Rage (instead of Hatred) killed CC builds, even defensive ones. Face it, the only big deal we picked up was being forced into ATW vs all those psykers and Terminator immunity to Power Swords, which means Mo' Gunline. Yes, Gunlines can be aggressive and we do have a tough one. Tough enough to shoot our way there and apply fists into faces of the remnants. You know, the stuff left after massive firepower has shot it to ribbons.

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Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link
7/1/2012 03:26:30 pm

I have comments, but Cain21 gave me a minor headache. Plus, its been an exhausting weekend...so sleep time. I'll put my thoughts down tomorrow. :)

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Sharpie
7/1/2012 11:39:59 am

Laeroth, what do you think about our Sword Brethren's ability to infiltrate with transports combined with the newfound perks of Rage+ a Chaplain?

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Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link
7/1/2012 02:33:57 pm

Unfortunately, the Sword Brethren aren't able to purchase Infiltrate if they selected a transport for the unit. Likewise, because the FAQ changed all of our transports to "Dedicated Transports", they cannot steal another's ride before deployment either. :(

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Algesan link
7/1/2012 05:04:48 pm

That joke I made up on my blog says it all about the Dedicated Transport issue. Forget not being able to share vows and special abilities, that pretty much gutted the major benefits (or exploits if you prefer) of Allies. Of course, it may just be that IMO Rhinos stink and Chimeras rock. The weapons and AV issues help a lot, because trust me, AV12, even open topped was never that easy to pop in 5th, but the biggest reason? 12 model capacity and room for 5 models to fire from the top.

Algesan link
7/1/2012 05:19:08 pm

Well, I've cranked lists, solo plus allied with IG, SM & SW. Finally I stopped and pulled out my new Fortress America to play a couple of solo turns to get familiar with it and upon reflection:
1) I'm missing nuances in the rules
2) I really, really need to see the NOVA scenarios before I commit. Part of it depends on which deployments and victory conditions are used.
3) An Aegis is a must, if available, even if you don't want the gun. Given NOVA terrain, if it is anything like last years board clogging, the flexibility of that ~30" of 4+ cover, dangerous terrain to assault across wall can give a lot of control on enemy movement.

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Strabaisen
7/13/2012 08:02:34 am

After having read some of your post. I admit not im not all too pleased about the new change BT have gone through.. but I will say this. Their CC PE was a boon from the emperor. I know charge and the statistics wern't changed. but multiple round CC just went down the drain. I know for one, that my BT lists could never kill a unit i first round of CC. they have to use 2-3 CC rounds (1,5 Turn) to whritle down the enemy unit. but they always did it. Now. if I dont get the enemy unit down turn 1. i might lose the entire thing, now that they are only "normal" marines. i know that normal and marine. do not belong in the same sentence. buti think you know what im talking about. sorry for "rage"ing. but that was my 2 cents.

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Marshal Zappin
7/20/2012 05:47:52 pm

I actually disagree about your idea that PE isn't better than rage. I do think that rage is better on the charge ( 1 attack always helps). However, I know that rarely do we have a chance to sweep an enemy unit is one turn- both because we had no real CC (except assualt termies with LCand FC) and because tactically it is not nearly as sound. Combat is best if it lasts 2 rounds so that you can dedicate anothe assualt the as soon as it ends. But i digress

My real point is that PE was better both defensively and offensively. Offensively you said it had a slight better out put on Intiates but you neglected to relay that that output stays equal while the results of the Rage attacks sharply decrease after the charge. So yes PE is better and continues to stay better through all of combat. So offensively it was something both better than rage and more reliable- And things that are reliable are what you can build a list around.Rage is not really reliable (unless with a chappy which i will get to)
Also you have to consider that the best way to kill opponents is not necessarily through low ap hits or hits volume but how many dice you can make the opponent roll. Low ap and high hits volume are good means of accomplishing this but the best is consistency which is seen in PE. Sure rage gives you higher volume of hits on the charge this is only for one turn. There after you are less effective then PE and PE will continue to lead in causing more dice to be rolled for your opponent to save.Rolling dice makes things go wrong reliably.
I do see what you mean though as the chappy is now good to play as he allows both PE and Rage on the charge which can be devastating. The problem with this is your Chappy can only be in one place. He cannot hold nor establish a line so while he is good Rage doesn't help your crusader squads making them worse than they are. He becomes a Deathstar and a not good one at that because his term com squad or whoever is usually les durable than other space marine builds. If he can get to H2h he better win or whats left will be shot to death.
Lastly I disagree with the idea that Assualt isn't dead. altho 2d6 can help us, more often it will hurt because we aren't necessaily dedicated CC like deamons or Nids. We need to know we will get the assualt otherwise manueverability and shooting would be better. I get everyone defending it saying 7 is the average range and that is fine but there should never be a reason I can't charge 4 inches. That can be a game changer fail. And that shouldn't be determined by the dice Plus overwatch essentially gives your opponent another round of shooting during your phase so assualt is worse. The least they could have done was say you can either declare overwatch or shoot during your shooting phase. Then it would make shooting and assualt even. Assualt is far less deadly with weapon nerfs. Xenos was never a problem killing it was marines. Now they are even harder.

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Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link
7/21/2012 02:41:17 am

I have to reiterate, I do not think Rage is "better" than the 5th Edition Preferred Enemy, because it isn't. I believe that it is a reasonable replacement, considering there was NO WAY we were going to be keeping it. I had been telling people to expect this for months prior to 6th Edition's release.

You are correct, close combat should last two rounds: Charging on your player turn and finishing that squad off on your opponent's player turn. You don't need re-rolls to hit if we've properly set up your charge, as there is next to nothing left of whatever you charged. It actually helps ensure we don't kill things too quickly and simply get blasted in their shooting phase.

You mentioned that I didn't state anything about subsequent rounds. Actually, I did and you've referenced it in your reply. Even the players who have used Preferred Enemy have agreed, they did best when the killed an enemy unit in a span of one game turn. Its completely feasible to accomplish this task. If you don't, you're going to get dragged down against a strong enemy. But that would have happened with your PE squad as well. While you may have won eventually, if it was CC-oriented, it would have lost much of its effectiveness by the end of the combat. Your enemy often will have killed just as much in reply. Leaving you with a gimped CC squad. In a tournament setting, that is bad news bears and remarkably easy to deal with.

"Also you have to consider that the best way to kill opponents is not necessarily through low ap hits or hits volume but how many dice you can make the opponent roll. Low ap and high hits volume are good means of accomplishing this but the best is consistency which is seen in PE."

That is true, the more dice you roll, the higher chance of your opponent to fail something. I referenced this in my article. Its called torrent-of-fire. While I agreed that Rage does not continue after the charge, or defensively, I must point out that the previous AAC rolled LESS dice on a statistically consistent basis. What it did do, was save your bacon if you rolled really poor.

But the fact of the matter is, forcing your opponent to take a bunch of armor saves isn't the best way of killing something. Hitting them with low AP weaponry is. Using our old 8/2 Crusader squads as a guide, let's look at it. The 7 initiates with PE (1 meltagun) and 2 Neophytes kill 3 MEQ on the charge. The one power weapon initiate? He killed 1.125 MEQ, for a squad total of 4.125 dead. That is only 37.5% less damage output from ONE guy! Let's try a new squad using Rage (without Chappy), but using the same setup to be consistent (with Power Axe). The 7 initiates/2 Neophytes kill 2.92 MEQ on the charge and the 1 Power Axe initiate kills 1.33 MEQ, for a total of 4.25 MEQ deaths. Imagine that. You killed more.

Initiates and Neophytes were marginal in 5th Edition and only get worse in 6th Edition. What rage does is it gives Neophytes more attacks on the charge, as they were not affected by Preferred Enemy anyway, to make up the difference in smaller amount of kills from your Initiates. Add in a chaplain? And whatever you charged is dead. The numbers do not lie. We still kill MEQ just as easy as before, even with the changes to Power Weapons. What we don't kill as well, is 2+ armor. Which is an entirely different beast.

However, you do bring up something that does impact CC a little bit, and I will agree that it can negatively impact a charge: Overwatch. While there can be situations where you want to be wary of it, its not THAT scary. Guys are shooting snap-fire shots at you. 6's to hit. Even if a 10-man squad of rapid firing bolter dudes are shooting at you, they are only going to get 3.33 hits on you (and only cause 0.556 unsaved wounds). But that is an extreme example, because you shot before you charged right? Overwatch isn't that scary in my opinion. Gives you reason to pause and think before your charges, but its not that big of a deterrent.

I disagree on the Chaplain front. Our HQs are getting expensive, but he's the only thing in our toolbox that reliable kills things offensively/defensively with or without Rage. He's our force multiplier. You should only be running one or two dedicated CC units anyway, or else you're not really fielding a balanced list. Would I run a Chaplain with a normal 5th Edition CC Crusader squad? Hell no. They were crap back then and they are crap now. Especially with the change to Transports. You have to build your lists effectively if you want to create a CC unit. It isn't so easy anymore, just tossing in Preferred Enemy and pretending like we were good at it. Takes much more skill and know how to set things up, and honestly, I prefer that because it makes the games all that much more interesting.

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Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link
7/21/2012 02:41:51 am


Do I now think that close combat is the most amazing thing ever? Psh. No. Shooting is still better. But I believe that we are BETTER at CC than we were before. I'm sorry if I have to be blunt, but once players learn how to not "Point and Click", they'll do much better. Those of us who have already been using "Abhor the Witch" for a good deal of time have learned how to do this. And yes, I'm a little bit annoyed by the 2D6 charges. Randomness is the bane of careful planning and strategy, but as you noted...6-8 on a 2D6 is by far the most common die rolls. So you're usually safe. Usually. :/

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40k fan
7/22/2012 01:15:02 am

hey man, thanks alot for spending the time to write this, im not sure if ill do BT's in 6th ed, but you have definatley made me think about it, really enjoyed reading this.

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Zealot
7/22/2012 04:31:54 am

First let me thank you for this and I want you to know I really took a lot from this. I cannot stand when people flip out when FAQ's come out and make it seem as though the sky is falling. Change happens, its just a matter of adapting to that change. Again thanks for posting this!

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Strabaisen
7/30/2012 08:56:42 pm

-Zealot.
You are right. I know I've been one of the grief'ers and I still am.
But I, and the rest of us Blogg readers, have to thank and appriciate Laeroth for posting. advice and insigt is always good.

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