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Comparing Shooty Marine Armies: BT Gunline vs SM Thunderbubble.

12/23/2010

1 Comment

 
Hello there!  Unfortunately, I had intended this article to be posted several days ago but I simply did not have the time to do so.  It is the holiday season, after all.  So basically what I wanted to show people is that our version of the gunline was just as efficient and effective as the ones in our counterpart's codices, namely the vanilla Space Marine book, as they do it best.

This article will be an introduction to my "How To" article regarding my BT Gunline list, as well as show readers that there is merit to this style of play if you choose to go that route.  I know that it isn't exactly the typical Templar way to sit back and shoot, but even the Black Templars need fire support to be effective.  Adaptability is key when our strengths in an old codex dwindle, so learning new strategies and tactics are essential to our continued success.  Change is hard, but in this case, its not a bad thing.

I'm going to start off by showing you the two lists I'll be comparing.  Both are competitive tournament lists that you could see (or likely see in the case of the C:SM list) at an event such as Nova Open.  Once you've seen the lists, we'll take a closer look at everything in it.

Black Templar Gunline:

HQ:
* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch." [110]

Elites:
* Venerable Dreadnought w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons, Heavy Flamer, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, Extra Armor, and Tank Hunter. [170]
* Dreadnought w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons, Heavy Flamer, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, and Extra Armor. [140]
* Dreadnought w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons, Heavy Flamer, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, and Extra Armor. [140]

Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. Mounted in a Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons. [191]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. Mounted in a Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons. [191]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. Mounted in a Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons. [191]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. Mounted in a Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons. [191]
* 5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [WH Allies] w/ 3 Hellguns and Targeters & 2 Meltaguns.  Mounted in a Rhino. [120]

Fast Attack:
* Land Speeder Tornado: Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer. [75]
* Land Speeder Tornado: Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer. [75]
* Land Speeder Tornado: Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer. [75]

Heavy Support:
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons. [110]
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons. [110]
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons. [110]

Total Points:  [1999]

This gives you 7 TL-Lascannons, 4 normal Lascannons, 3 Autocannons, 3 Multi-Meltas, 2 Meltaguns, 4 Plasmaguns, 6 Heavy Bolters, and 6 Heavy Flamers.  Now we'll move on our comparison list, the competitive Space Marine "Thunderbubble" army.

Space Marine "Thunderbubble":

HQ:
* Librarian w/ Null Zone & Gate of Infinity.  [100]

Elites:
* Assault Terminators: 10 Terminators w/ Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields. [170]
* Dreadnought w/ 2 Twin-Linked Autocannons and Smoke Launchers. [125]
* Dreadnought w/ 2 Twin-Linked Autocannons and Smoke Launchers. [125]

Troops:
* Tactical Marines: 4 Marines w/ 4 Bolters; 1 Sergeant w/ Combi-Melta.  Mounted in a Razorback w/ Lascannon, Twin-Linked Plasmaguns, and Smoke Launchers. [175]
* Tactical Marines: 4 Marines w/ 4 Bolters; 1 Sergeant w/ Combi-Melta.  Mounted in a Razorback w/ Lascannon, Twin-Linked Plasmaguns, and Smoke Launchers. [175]
* Tactical Marines: 4 Marines w/ 4 Bolters; 1 Sergeant w/ Bolter.  Mounted in a Razorback w/ Lascannon, Twin-Linked Plasmaguns, and Smoke Launchers. [165]
* Tactical Marines: 4 Marines w/ 4 Bolters; 1 Sergeant w/ Bolter.  Mounted in a Razorback w/ Lascannon, Twin-Linked Plasmaguns, and Smoke Launchers. [165]

Fast Attack:
* Land Speeder Tornado: Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer. [70]
* Land Speeder Tornado: Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer. [70]
* Land Speeder Tornado: Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer. [70]

Heavy Support:
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Side Sponsons, and Smoke Launchers. [120]
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Side Sponsons, and Smoke Launchers. [120]
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Side Sponsons, and Smoke Launchers. [120]

Total Points:  [2000]

This gives us 10 Lascannons, 4 TL-Autocannons, 3 normal Autocannons, 3 Multi-Meltas, 2 Combi-Meltaguns, 4 TL-Plasmaguns, and 3 Heavy Flamers.  That gives it a slight advantage in AT killing power over the BT Gunline, though that could easily be solved by also taking AC/Las Predators instead of our current AC/HB ones.

However, we don't want to do that as our armies work slightly different.  For the C:SM list, they use Assault Terminators with a Libby and TH/SS to tarpit dangerous units from reaching their lines, as well as getting into range to assault if needed.  While they can be combat squad, they are ultimately a "Deathstar" unit for all intents and purposes.  This list concentrates on bringing huge amounts of AT to bear to bring you out of your vehicles, eliminating your firepower, and cripple the opponent.  Once the vehicles have been dealt with, they can point their AT weaponry at the infantry and they will die to focused fire.

They do have a huge disadvantage, however.  This army cannot deal with horde armies very well.  Or infantry as a whole.  If the opponent has cover (which is likely), all those low AP weapons are wasted.  Their only saving grace is the terminators.  Another weakness is that their firepower is more focused on less vehicles.  By this I mean that there is a much easier chance to eliminate their firepower by simply shaking/stunning the Dreadnoughts, Razorbacks, and Predators.  There is only 9 vehicles there.  And really, the ones you should worry about more are the Dreads and Razorbacks, which will fall to focused fire quite easily.  Outside of those 9 vehicles, there is very little firepower that your opponent can put against you.  Playing the shake/stun game will put you in a very good position to win.  Their melta weapons are also few in number and two are one-shot wonders.

On the other hand, our army does a couple of things.  It also puts out massive AT firepower.  However, we have an advantage of pure target saturation.  Remember how the "Thunderbubble" army only essentially has 9 vehicles that present a constant firepower threat?  Well, we have 3 Dreadnoughts, 4 Razorbacks, 3 Predators, 4 Crusader Squads, AND a suicide melta squad.  Try taking out all of that firepower in one turn.  Its not going to happen.  Plus, our infantry squads are going to be firing every turn until they are killed off, unlike a vehicle.  In addition, we are far more able to deal with infantry-based threats (i.e. hordes/Monstrous Creatures) than the other list is.  Our Dakka Predators and Heavy Flamers will easily deal with those types of threats.  And like the C:SM list, there are plenty of Bolters to go around.  Against "Deathstar" units like the TH/SS Terminators, those Dakka Predators are invaluable to provide torrent of fire.  They will die quickly against the onslaught.

That doesn't mean our list isn't without our disadvantages.  The main one is that we don't have a dedicated CC unit.  However, we can easily delegate our Dreadnoughts to this role.  Most units in the game have difficulty dealing with walkers in close combat.  In addition, because we'll be putting our Emperor's Champion with one of the Crusader Squads, that unit can be used to assault if needed.  Or you could simply break the EC off and charge in if you think he'll live long enough to hold that unit up.  Another downfall we have is that our BT infantry units suffer from "Kill Them All".  That means we have to take a target priority test, with a -1 modifier.  Most of the time, this doesn't really affect us.  But on the first turn, it might against a properly deployed opponent.  The three crusader squads that don't have the EC have a 58.33% chance to pass the test, which isn't terrible.  The EC's squad has a whopping 83.33% chance to pass it.  Not a big deal most of the time, but its something to think about.

So now that you have a brief look at two very competitive lists, I've shown you that we can in fact compete against similar-styled lists.  I would argue that we do it better because of our ability to min-max our crusader squads still.  Food for thought.  ;)
1 Comment
Algesan link
12/24/2010 02:15:01 am

I've always preferred Witch to Accept for mech lists. That extra move can be devastating.

If you want a CC unit: Drop a DN (you'd have to anyway) and the WH squad.

Replace with 5x Sword Brethren as follows: 4x BP/CCW/Combat Shield/Term Honors, 1x Melta, frags. Furious Assault freebie. Mounted in a Lazorback w/ smoke.

Toss searchlights on the Crusader vehicles (for DOW scenarios) or reconfigure for some EA instead of smoke on some units.

You lose the suicide melta troop unit, 1 melta and a heavy flamer (TL Las lost and gained). You gain a S5/I5 (on the charge) with 18 attacks and S4/I4 with 13 attacks on the defense. As well as 5++ saves in CC on the four BP/CCW Brethren.

Add in the EC to that squad and you have a nasty little CC unit. It won't blow out that Assault Term squad above, but it will put paid to the rest of the units and pop transports.

Not sure if I like the idea, but it works.

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