Finally! The new FAQ's are out. :)

9/7/2012

Smiley face? Better believe it. "But...but...but! We got nerfed again!" I'll tell you why: I don't like things being left open for interpretation. I play Rules As Written (RAW) in pretty much all things. Hell, I emailed GW about those exact things (see comments). Moral of the story? I built my Nova Open list assuming we'd get the rulings we did. Vehicles = important. I distinctly remember saying this post-6th Edition release. The new FAQ hinders Min/Max shooty squads a little bit, but then again, I've rarely built a list with a shooty unit without a transport.

Again, the sky still isn't falling. I'll go through the "Why" this weekend, as well as putting out my post-Nova Open articles. I needed a few days of rest and recovery first. Unfortunately, I'll only have battle reports of my last two games (without pictures though) as none of my opponents, besides the first one, allowed me to photograph our games.

Also, I'm probably going to stay away from B&C for a little bit. The knee-jerk reactions wear on you after a while. Everyone just needs to calm down and relax. So if you read here, you're good to go. :)

20 Comments

Elessar

9/7/2012 08:59:16 pm

Marshal Laeroth will you post some army builds and thoughts about BT's after the FAQ's? And when i say builds i dont mean the "well the best way to play Templars now is to using those and those allies or not playing Templars at all". Right now im considering to play BT's "everything or nothing" way, using 10/10 Crusader squads, Vindicators, and TH/SS Terminators ignore the objectives, count on the secondary objectives and try to wipe out the enemy from his objectives to win the game, since there is little to control in our army now.

Cheers.

Sharpie

9/8/2012 08:40:02 am

The reason he hasn't written tactica for them is because they aren't competitive, simply put. The biggest issue is the fact that those units cost a lot and have massive flaws. The Assault Termies need a Land Raider so they rely on it surviving the time it takes to reach the enemy lines, 10/10 Crusader Squads are hugely expensive and suck against MEQ, even with rage, they're easy targets and they're slow. Vindicators become useless after most vehicle damage results and have a short range,

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

9/9/2012 03:28:47 am

Not...necessarily. I had a squad of walking Assault Terminators in my Nova Open list (4x TH/SS, 3x LC) and did exceptionally well with them. They can eat enormous amounts of fire if you simply put in an IC into the squad (Look Out Sir!). For me, that was the Emperor's Champion...who also neutralized enemy characters. Likewise, Vindicators have a place as well due to their high AV value front and huge pie-plates of death. However, the ruling on the FAQ regarding firing at cruising speed made things a little more hairly...I need to articulate my thoughts on that later. But nevertheless, I'm calling it right now, AP2 in huge numbers is coming. Plasma, ordnance, whatever. Flyers? Psh. Maybe 2-3, but that is easily dealt with.

As for the large Crusader squads, you need to build a list around them...but they can work, especially if you use allies. The key is to create the list with enough other threats in it that you're not having them shot up before hand. Redundancy is key here too. They ARE slow, however...so building such a list would have problems against highly mobile opponents. But I'll discuss that a little bit more in my upcoming articles.

Stuart

9/8/2012 12:15:13 am

Glad you've kept your level head as I expected. Have been patiently waiting for the wealth of wisdom in the art of the Templars in 6th for months, so am very much lookIng forward to your ideas on army building etc
Thanks for all yor input
Stuart

9/9/2012 02:59:38 am

Sorry about the delays. As I mentioned in a previous post, I didn't want to start doing full analysis of 6th Edition and how it interacted with our codex until I had a legitimate 6th Edition GT under my belt. Having that actual tournament experience is essential to being able to claim actual knowledge of how things work, rather than being an armchair general. And I couldn't have asked for a better GT to attend than Nova Open. :)

Algesan link

9/8/2012 02:42:22 am

No, the world isn't ending, although it could be a bit better. The new ruling on RZ restores it to Zeal instead of Mild Enthusiasm (roll dice and move if you feel like it), but the other half of that equation was the ability to move into CC from a couple of editions ago. It is possible to make the case for RZ into CC from the ruling and while I don't think it is intended (at least right now), it can be argued for and isn't the weakest case I've seen.
OTOH, if you want a break, the RZ ruling is great for a Chaplain led Assault Terminator squad with FC selected as an Allied Detachment.

9/9/2012 04:32:29 am

I sent in a special "side-note" in my FAQ email just for you Righteous Zeal fans:

"As a side note, could you please rewrite the entire rule itself to make it completely loop-hole proof? With no mention of consolidation moves (that is the cause of almost all of the problems), as the Righteous Zeal rule works differently. Just a required D6" movement towards the closest enemy unit. And it would be much appreciated by BT players EVERYWHERE if you allowed Righteous Zeal to let BT units charge into close combat, so that the rule itself isn't completely negative in all respects (i.e. pulled off objectives/into kill zones by killing only one dude, possible fall backs by only killing one dude, and/or being led around the board by mobile bait units). Right now, the rule has zero tactical positives unless you spend a lot of points on Chaplains and even then, you're still going to get pulled off objectives against your will."

:)

Nostok

9/8/2012 09:29:17 am

Did anyone give reasons for not letting you take photographs? I find it odd.

One thing I'd like to know that I have not read anywhere yet is do we have to disembark from our drop pods? From the BRB, Codex, and FAQ I still don't see this. The normal marines appear to have this explicitly written. Am I missing something?

9/9/2012 04:30:10 am

This would be one of the very, very, very few times I'd break my RAW stance and say we'd have to disembark, just like how the rules originally said. lol. Simple oversight.

BJP

9/8/2012 11:21:01 pm

Hi guys. Does anyone know whether a Vindicator with POTMS can move 12'' and fire the cannon like in the 5th? And, if it's not allowed, then what is the POTMS good for ? Thanks.

9/9/2012 04:27:49 am

Honestly? I'm not sure now. I sent in another set of FAQ questions to GW, considering my last bunch mostly got answered.

Due to how they worded the FAQ regarding Cruising Speed and Ordnance fire, it makes me think that you can fire the Demolisher Cannon so long as something hasn't inflicted Snap-Fire on the vehicle (i.e. Crew Shaken/Stunned or random weaponry/wargear/special psychic powers). It something did, you'd not be able to shoot it.

However, combined on the ruling on wargear (e.g. Signums) not affecting Snap-Fire, I'm not sure if Power of the Machine Spirit would override that disallowed shot. So, I'd personally play it safe and say no. We get half the battle. We can fire when moving full speed, but the PotMS doesn't let us fire if shaken/stunned. Save the points for now (at least until they FAQ it again).

9/9/2012 02:06:17 am

@Nostok: OMG, ROFL, I think you are right, it doesn't say that we have to disembark. So, anyone for an AV12 OT bunker sitting on an objective? With "emplaced" Stormbolter? That counts as an assault vehicle any turn after the one it drops?

@BJP: Yes, it still works.

9/9/2012 06:46:42 am

Walking Assault Terminators: They work just fine. I used them all through 5th, mainly as bullet sponges, because if they ever get stuck in, the slaughter is enormous, so the threat must be respected. I'm still for having about 1/3-1/4 being TLC versions...just because. What is really missing is the 50% casualty bonus from losing AACNMTO's PE. You can also Deep Strike them in, yep, you can lose them that way, but risk/reward is in effect. You have to screw up badly to lose them and if you get them in the right spot, they are brutal in the rear. If you are still worried, put them in a Drop Pod.

So far on my Vindi lists I'm building (but haven't played), I put in flankers (Rhinos, Dreads, anything to get 25% cover), because unless GW does take PotMS away from us, that 36" threat range is a surprise to most people.

Awww, but it would be so much fun to point out we don't have to get out and tell them to just shoot the Pod. It's fair, it gives us a metal box with a Storm Bolter that costs about 30 points.... Besides, everyone and their brother always pointed out that we should have to drop half our Pods on turn one "just like everyone else". ROFL!

Scotty

9/9/2012 11:14:19 am

Sadly for our terminators, we cant have drop pods. I think it was another case of making things work more like C:SM, but I suppose walking terminators will have to do (Unless I make points for a Land Raider)

9/9/2012 12:18:10 pm

How about deep striking with the aid of teleport homers?

Elsus

9/9/2012 03:00:32 pm

What do you guys think about a modified BT horde version of Tony Kopach's Footslogging infantry list?

A blob squad of 50 guardsman at front, and then followed by terminator squads and large 10/10 troops..

Lucion

9/10/2012 03:29:48 am

@Elsus my first impression for that is one cant copy and paste things from a Space wolf codex because of the different units. But we can make some adjustments.

We do not have long fangs - we have CML terminators. (although one squad of our 5 men, is almost x2 as expensive as a 10 man LF squad, which has 10 ML. )
Our Slogger squads do not match up to Grey hunters due to the rules - they get bolters and acute senses as well as B+C and counter attack.

At the same time, that kind of list could be very fun and probably catch a few people off guard. Thanks for bringing this idea up.

If you we were going to do something like that, which would be a slogger army we might do something like.. . (very draft list)

At 2k points

x3 Cyclone missile launcher squads with tank hunters 795 points
x4 15 man (x10 templar, x5 initiate fist/melta) 940 points
x1 Emperors Champion AAC 140 pts
1875

76 bodies, shoot at the little ones and they run forwards, shoot at the big ones (they get a cover save.. and shoot back!)

125 points, for some guard - can always move a few things around to save a few points.

9/10/2012 03:42:27 am

A fun edit to the list above... :)

Replace x1 CML squad, lose a 1 neophyte, forget the guard and get.. 400 points to play with =

x10 Assault Terminators (TH/SS)

Yeah I like these lists alot, thanks again for inspiring that.

For more adaptation One can always also lose a x15 man squad and (shuffling points about) Add x3 5 man Las/Plas or Multi melta/Melta squads to run with the horde.

That would equal something like
x2 CML squads
10 TH SS squads
x3 15 man neo/fist/melta squads
x3 5 man las/plas or melta/m melta

9/10/2012 03:42:33 am

9/10/2012 04:34:49 am

@Elius - I used PotMS Vindicators, it just gets too much for THDC Terminator squads. Be warned, this list plays one way and one way only, if you get countered, you are dead.

http://algesansblog.weebly.com/2/post/2012/07/black-tide-of-the-panacea-crusade.html

@Lucion: I'm fiddling with different variations of allied lists, don't discount IG for scoring units. For 405 points, you can get a Company Cmd, Plt Cmd, 2xInfantry, 1xHWS(AC), 2xHydra. I'd suggest at least one IG flyer also. Otherwise, that is a static list, with one Infantry, HWS & Company Cmd holding down one objective while the Plt Cmd & one Infantry run over to grab (or start at, depending) another objective.

Or you can go with a minimalist BT list, 2xLas/Plas, Reclusiarch, EC-ATW, 3xLS-Typhoons (yes, they aren't so hot, but the big thing saving them in 5th was their 48" range and they are still cheap), and some Terminator squads. Then buy up some Chimeras and go mobile with the Guard using the Las/Plas (or ML/Plas or X/Flamer) to guard the rear objectives.

Finally! The new FAQ's are out. :)

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