Implausible Nature: Past, Present, and Future

9/20/2011

9/19/2011 08:32:42 pm

Hey Bob

Great to put a face to the name at last! Can't help but agree that the Templars are looking ever more likely to get an updated codex in the next year. Marines that are fluffy and very easy to paint quickly (note that I didn't say well) are a cash cow for GW.

I'm just hoping that after buying all these God damn pods that the new codex/6th edition will not cripple me. As you know I go by the fluff rather than competitive builds so I'll just have to work with what they throw in front of me (with your help of course!)

Keep up the good work, looking forward to the new venture too!

carcharadon carcharias out

Algesan link

9/19/2011 11:07:01 pm

The one thing that bothers me about BT rumors is that we have been getting used as a distraction lately. A year from now? I'm not going to swoop that far ahead, but I think we are going to be the first Marine codex for 6th, Just not the first Imperial codex.

The scary part: there is quite obviously no central editor at GW. Or at least not one working to a written standard. This means we are at the mercy of whoever interprets (and then retcons if needed) the fluff to justify the codex setup. Plus there are vehicle issues that are supposedly being addressed in 6th.

What happens if Land Raiders go to having three "hits" before they can be destroyed? If BT get bonuses (cheap PW, +1WS, +1A, etc.) to CC across the board. Not tailored ones (like fixing RZ to be real RZ), just the ones that bring out the "For the Blood Emperor" cries from the CC fanatics?

Devjon link

9/20/2011 04:58:25 pm

Is it bad that all I can look at are your eyebrows? ;)

But in all seriousness, for some reason I've been convinced for a few months now that Black Templars will get a new codex sometime relatively soon and probably at the end of next summer. I think it has something to do with the Game coming out and featuring a predominant amount of Templars for the Imperial Forces. It could also be the large number of rumors saying that we're coming up. There's nothing concrete to this feeling, it's just there.

I really hope that the new codex doesn't adjust our fluff to be what some interpret it as, and keep us from being just loyal Khorne Berzerkers, but unfortunately I don't have too much faith.

As to the future of Implausible Nature, improvements to the Hobby and Fluff areas would probably be a good thing. I've been doing things to work on the fluff for my Company soon as well.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

9/20/2011 09:02:18 pm

@ Carcharodon Carcharias

Haha. A face is definitely nice to have. I've posted pics and videos before, but it was a good while ago. ;)

To be completely honest, I'm not sure what is going to happen with the Drop Pods. My guess is that they will update them to the newest rules, which makes me sad, but its not a total loss. It IS possible to make Drop Pod lists using the new rules, but its just not as good in my opinion. Depends on what kind of fun army builds we're able to put out with them. So don't dismiss them yet. In the meantime, get as much use out of those drop pods as you can! :D

The reason I personally won't be building the Drop Pod army, is because I own exactly...2 Drop Pods. I always borrow the rest and right now, the expense for buying them isn't something I need at the moment. If the codex comes out and they are good, then that is definitely changing. ;)

@ Algesan

I definitely agree. Building or not building BT armies based on a maybe codex drop doesn't really make sense to me when its so far out. In my case, since I have so many models, I can start thinking about next year's Nova Open in the event that the codex doesn't drop in time for it.

Phil Kelly is supposed to have his hands on our dex, so I'm confident that we're not going to get reamed with stupid. He's an excellent designer and has written some pretty amazing fluff. I think he'll treat us well. :)

@ Devjon

I know, I have hyper-active eyebrows. It doesn't help that they are pretty pronounced. lol! :D

I'm going to do my best on that hobby/fluff front, but I also have a few housekeeping things I need to finish off. Namely the final update touches on the BT 101 guide. However, the priority will always be on competitive gaming. I'm planning to integrate Vassal and/or Battle Chronicler to my articles as a teaching tool, just as soon as I teach myself to use it. lol.

Algesan link

9/21/2011 01:31:21 am

Maybe I should finish that post I started months ago about a Codex Drop Pod list. It would be closer to the old Dreadnought heavy one I started with and required fiddling to balance the turn one drop of shooty stuff vs the reserve roll scoring units.

Lucion

9/21/2011 11:47:03 am

I made a tutorial but after 20 mins all I had painted was white. So now I am looking at 5 minute tutorials

Laeroth has given so much inspiration to us all. I wanted to give back in the form of tutorials.

I'll aim to get a basic templar tutorial, with an emphasis on solid foundations and speed painting options - but with room and encouragement for creativity.

I hope to create a new forum for us to test out experiences of templar painting, because there is more than 1 way to paint and finish black, red, white and gold.

I am doing it to help IL, and also to get some video experience/confidence, and also to help new comers. Alot of people get turned off our hobby and that needs to change.

We all have our abilities and we need to bring them together to serve the community and make the game better for everyone.

Carcharodon Carcharias

9/21/2011 09:01:51 pm

@Algesan

Would love to get hold of a revised drop pod list, as I've almost completed the build and paint of 7 pods and 3 dreadnought pods are on order, so I intend to play those until I get a win (sorry Bob lost again last night!) I'm not suggesting my luck will improve but any alternative builds with the mins I have would be worth testing.

Algesan link

9/22/2011 06:52:21 pm

Codex or Black Templar? I haven't done a Codex one yet, it takes a different build, but click on my name if you want to see the version I'm running as Black Templar.

Lucion

9/25/2011 07:39:49 am

Good luck in your games Algesan.

For the hobby side of things theres been some interesting conversations i've had regarding their development today.

Hopefully a new member will make it to the site too!

Lucion

Lucion

9/26/2011 01:02:18 am

Is the drop pod theme a heavy element of black templars in the fluff?

Devjon link

9/26/2011 06:25:38 am

Well, technically the only elements that you could really consider 'heavy' are the orginizational structure (Initiates train Neophytes, Fighting Companies are led by Castellans, Marshals are super Castellans who lead entire Crusades), that they are Fleet-Based, and how they were formed. Pretty much everything else is merely noted briefly before moving on, and things rarely get more than a short paragraph.

The Drop Pod Tactic does get one of these paragraphs, as does the Armored Spearhead tactic, and it is suggested that when striking a planet the Black Templars drop down and battle the enemy in the near vicinity so that they can bring down the heavy vehicles and continue from there. Beyond that? Well, umm, they're fleet based so it makes sense.

On the other hand, you could point out that Drop Pods are given more attention in our codex fluff than our Close Combat preference, so go where you want with that.

Devjon link

9/26/2011 06:32:06 am

Drop Pods get more attention in our fluff than Close Combat, so you can draw your conclusions from there.

Aside from that, the tactic is mentioned and it is implied (as I understand it) that it is used first to secure an area where the Heavy Vehicles can be brought down to continue the Crusade with.

Aside from those two things? Well, umm, we're fleet-based... Unfortunately, after reading the fluff in the Tyranid Codex, I am rather disappointing with the Black Templars Fluff. By comparison, the Tyranid Fluff gets you excited while the Black Templar Fluff seems more informative than insirational. Hopefully, when we get a new codex, that will be fixed.

Lucion

9/26/2011 10:49:28 am

Thanks for the info.

We can wait, we can also create inspiration.

I will be sure to keep it in mind when I make a little fluff on our new army.

On another a note since it is ILs birthday I wish to have members of IL as the armys character names.

I may need more names and thought about asking chaps from BC and other relevant areas.

Darkwynn

9/26/2011 12:06:36 pm

I would suggest looking at other ideas or breaking out of your box or frame that you think Black Templars should follow. I look at your gunline process and there are a lot of things I don't agree with and they are nice on paper but on the table top they have a lot of issues and problems.

Most of the stuff I see is theory based and not fully flushed out. Great in concept but doesn't cut it. For example Predators, they are great buys and a steal in the heavy support section but in game terms and on a table with good terrain they have issues with LoS. A good player playing against you can cut down angles and take advantage of terrain to mitigate the firepower of a predator because the weapons are so low to the ground and are on sponsors.

Specializing in pure gun doesn't do you any good you might as well play IG. Black Templars can do really good in a hybrid role though and would like to see you explore those ideas. I know you don't agree with me and you think I am a bad player but I think you would be surprised in how good I am with BT.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

9/26/2011 01:51:29 pm

@ Darkwynn

Hardly think you're a bad player overall, I just think you are far better with your other armies than you are with the BT. As you have noted your objections to what I've written, I have fundamental disagreements with some of the things you do. My opinion, as everyone is entitled to, and I noted it in the comment section of one blog post. However, that doesn't extend to you as a person. :)

With that being said: Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, concentrates on the fact that I did gunline. I've got what, seven or eight unique army types listed here? I am biased towards gunline, but I am certainly not hiding in my box. I do what it takes to win with my army and will examine all routes to get there. lol!

Everything written here regarding the gunline was theoretically done originally, but after it was written, it was extensively playtested on terrain based on Nova Open 2010 format. It did extremely well in that capacity. I have dozens of players who have also adapted the gunline approach and are consistently doing well (as per emails). You can even find such successes on B&C. I never claimed it was perfect. In fact, I examined the pretty glaring weaknesses in the list. :D

However, the gunline did NOT do as well in the Nova Open 2011 format due to the changes in terrain, at least in the way the list was designed to function. I have mentioned this previously. The list was simply not mobile "enough" to handle the BLOS terrain and there was too little in the way of counter-assault. That is definitely going to be addressed, I just haven't gotten there yet.

Even still, I believe that shooting is the key to success with BT. How that is accomplished may need to change a little bit, but that is part of the fun. ;)

Lucion

9/27/2011 12:59:54 am

I dont think I am wrong when I say IL was founded if not originally inspired by Ytth. Ytth, being a central - or daily repetition of gunline/MEQ.

I wouldnt be suprised if core principles are derived from there in the same way a philosopher or Scientist is influenced by the books he read.

Battlefields are never the same, and a gunline formation is one of many formations.

Since battle fields are changing one should have different lists to choose depending on what terrain is likely to be present.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

10/2/2011 02:16:37 pm

@ Lucion

Aye, Implausible Nature was originally inspired by blogs such as YTTH. I felt there needed to be a truly competitive Black Templars website, similar to what other blogs were doing, except on a broader scale.

The gunline list was actually of my own design and wasn't the first list I created. Stelek created a sorta gunline list for 'Ard Boys about a year ago, but it was more of a hybrid list than anything else. That list is here:

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/03/bt-mech-ard-boyz-approved/

I agree that battlefields are never the same, but if the current trend continues, quite a few Grand Tournaments are taking their queue from Nova Open with their style. So if MVBrandt introduces something into Nova, its a good chance that the other GTs will adopt it too. Much like what happened last year. That means similar terrain.

However, there is WargamesCon and Adepticon which is unique to themselves, where the terrain will likely be a completely different style from Nova Open. Knowing this, editing the list to adapt to the tournament is important. Nova Open is very transparent in the information they give out before the events, so its easy to build your list to the tournament. :)

Implausible Nature: Past, Present, and Future

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