Land Raider...rush?

10/9/2013

First off, the challenge I mentioned a couple of posts ago is still coming. I became somewhat busy in the last week and I've not been able to touch anything 40k during that time. But my schedule has cleared up again, so I'm getting back on it. Prior to that though, I hadn't come up with a list I liked and the lists that I was helping Firepower with ended up being a list I liked a lot. So...he may beat me, even if he did steal my idea. But we'll get to that soon.

Anyway, the following is another of the many lists I've developed since the codex has been released. This one is actually a mix of a bunch of different themes, but in particular, the ability for us to take large Crusader squads and put them in a Land Raider Crusader for some hefty protection. I also take advantage of "Accept Any Challenge" with characters in several CC-oriented squads.

HQ:
* High Marshal Helbrecht. [180]
~ Honor Guard (7x) w/ Chapter Banner, 2 Relic Blade, 2 Power Axes, and 3 Power Swords. [230]

TROOPS:
* Crusader Squad (1x Sword Brethren, 9x Initiates, 5x Neophytes) w/ Power Sword, Power Axe, and Flamer. Mounted in a Land Raider Crusader w/ Multi-Melta. [490]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Veteran Sergeant, 4x Neophytes) w/ Melta Bombs. Mounted in a Land Speeder Storm. [115]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant, 9x Neophytes) w/ 10 Sniper Rifles and 10 Camo Cloaks. [130]

FAST ATTACK:
* Storm Talon Gunship w/ TL-Assault Cannon and Skyhammer Missile Launcher. [125]
* Storm Talon Gunship w/ TL-Assault Cannon and Skyhammer Missile Launcher. [125]

HEAVY SUPPORT:
* Thunderfire Cannon. [100]
* Thunderfire Cannon. [100]
* Land Raider. [250]

Total: [1850]

Competitive...? Yet to be seen. I think it has the potential for it to be. The list doesn't pack huge amounts of firepower, but what it does have provides something to the army. As much as a dual-LR list screams push forward, the best way to run this list is from mid/long-range until late game when your CC-units can make their move. The AV14 has a high probability of surviving beyond 24" range and with it, your infantry inside. To facilitate this, we have several units which are particularly suited for delay tactics. However, it will struggle against the Tau if you're not able to neutralize their marker-lights. This list has few troops and needs those Camo Cloak (plus Bolster Defenses) Neophytes to hold backfield objectives. But if those marker-lights stay functional, those cover saves will mean nothing for your neophytes. For this goal, we've got several tools in the box: Scouting Land Speeder Storm squad that hopefully blinds/charges, then a combat-squad sniper unit who can potentially pin, and finally, lots of pie-plates from the Thunderfire Cannon.

Another potentially problematic opponent is the horde. Daemons specifically, but Tyranids and Orcs can be bothersome as well. You can see that I'm top-heavy in the way of AI to compensate for the high number of these lists on the tournament scene. If I'm built to kill infantry, then why is it a problem you may ask? It still may not be enough. However, if I'm being honest here, I'm more worried about tank-heavy lists as I don't have much in the way of long range weaponry on that front. It is also why the Honor Guard are riding in a normal Land Raider instead of a LRC. I predict that mechanized armies will start reviving a little bit here in the semi-near future, as people tire of the shenanigans that the Eldar and Tau can do to infantry. But that time isn't yet here. :P

20 Comments

Marshal Gaisgeach

10/9/2013 12:47:02 pm

Very fluffy and probably pretty competitive.
Cool list.
You got two great distraction offensive units.
4 AA units
2 units to claim backfield objectives another unit to claim last minute objectives and another unit to claim offensive objectives.
Great supporting fire.
Duality in both fast attack and heavy support.
Cool list!!!

Zyth23

10/10/2013 03:52:29 am

Land Raider Rush with a Single Land Raider? ^^

Your list looks cool, but for a LR Rush, I'd choose 3 Crusader Squad, each mounted in a LRC, with 2 Vindicator as support. To make a /\ Formation. (Maybe the head LR could be a redeemer, Fire For The Win)
And also a Hunter as Anti-Air support.

But I don't know the points cost of this formation, it's only an Idea I had to make a Land Raider list ^^

Xaereth link

10/10/2013 05:08:29 am

Looks like two Land Raiders - one of the Troop squads has another one. Hence his title :)

I think his take on it is going to do a lot more damage in a TAC setting, as Vindicators are cool but really one-dimensional, while his flyers will help with lots of different targets, and the TFCs are just too ridiculous to really leave out.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

10/10/2013 11:39:21 am

Hehe. Yep. That's why I put the "...rush?" part in the title, as I'm not exactly rushing forward. Strategic counter-attack, more accurately. ;)

Still, I am a bit concerned about the lack of long ranged AT in the list. I think that is what will keep it from being consistently competitive, as I am convinced that mechanization is going to be coming back.

10/11/2013 12:04:55 am

Ho yeah you're right, I didn't saw the LR as troop transport.
(Too many unit with the name "Land", I only saw the Land Speeder Storm for the troops transport ^^')

For the Vindicator, it's only to make hardcore damade to enemy infantry troops, and yes it's a single use list type: Killing infantry.

10/10/2013 11:41:33 am

Don't worry, there are two Land Raiders in the list. One in the Heavy Support slot, which the Honor Guard will ride in. The other one is with the large Crusader squad, who have a LRC.

As fun as the list you mentioned is to play (I had a similar version in 5th Edition), it lacks the tools to really be successful as an all-comers list. :(

10/10/2013 10:20:41 pm

@Zyth23

I tried to make your list work, but could not.
I suppose you could alter the list I made and change the STw/SKYML to Vindis but then you would have no AA.
Here was the list I made to adapt to your suggestions, but I think ML's is better.
You could always mess around with the IC (thought about adding a chain fist or Melta bombs)

Name Points Upgrades
HQ Terminator Chaplain 136 Power fist and Combi-flamer
Troops
Squad 1 LRC
1 Sword Brother 39 10pt + Power Sword
7 Initiates 98 Bolters
1 Initiate 29 Power Axe
1 Initiate 19 Flamer
4 Neophytes 60 CCW
Squad 2 LRR
1 Sword Brother 39 10pt + Power Sword
7 Initiates 98 Bolters
1 Initiate 29 Power Axe
1 Initiate 19 Flamer
2 Neophytes 20 CCW
Squad 3 LRC
1 Sword Brother 39 10pt + Power Sword
7 Initiates 98 Bolters
1 Initiate 29 Power Axe
1 Initiate 19 Flamer
6 Neophytes 60 CCW
Fast Attack
Stormtalon 125 SKYML
Stormtalon 125 SKYML

Heavy Support
Land Raider Redeemer 240
Land Raider Crusader 260
Land Raider Crusader 260
1841

10/10/2013 10:36:28 pm

@Zyth23

Take that back
I just thought of another way to do it.
What do you think???

Name Points Upgrades
HQ Terminator Chaplain 126 Power maul and Combi-flamer
Troops
Squad 1 LRC
1 Sword Brother 39 10pt + Power Sword
7 Initiates 98 Bolters
1 Initiate 29 Power Axe
1 Initiate 19 Flamer
4 Neophytes 60 CCW
Squad 2 LRR
5 Scouts 55 CCW/Shotguns
Squad 3
LRC
1 Sword Brother 39 10pt + Power Sword
7 Initiates 98 Bolters
1 Initiate 29 Power Axe
1 Initiate 19 Flamer
6 Neophytes 60 CCW
Squad 4
5 Scouts 70 CC and SR
Fast Attack
Vindicator 125
Vindicator 125
Fortification ADL 100 Quad gun
Heavy Support
Land Raider Redeemer 240
Land Raider Crusader 260
Land Raider Crusader 260
1851

10/11/2013 12:08:03 am

For the tactic I mentioned just above, no sword brother in troop squads.

It's a 100% Mecanized army type, which means big tanks with few troops inside to wipe anything that come at range of fire from the tanks.

Let me try to make a list and I'll post it here.
(But as I just said in a comment, it's probably a InfantryWiper list only)

10/11/2013 12:29:21 am

HG
* 1x Terminator Chaplain [120 pts]
Elite
* 5x Assault Terminator, Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, Transport: Land Raider Redemeer [465 pts]
Troops
* 5x Initiate, Bolter or CC equipment, Transport: Land Raider Crusader [320 pts]
* 5x Initiate, Bolter or CC equipment, Transport: Land Raider Crusader [320 pts]
Support
* 1x Vindicator [135 pts]
* 1x Vindicator [135 pts]
Total: 1495 Points

The Chalpain goes inside of the Redemeer with the Assault HammerNators.

But couldn't place the AA tank in 1k5 list.

The main idea is to exploit the low cost of a Land Raider Crusader, not in Support, with our Crusader Squad.
320points for 5men and a Land Raider Crusader as Troop Choice is just awesome.

I remember on the White dwarf that presented the birth of the Black Templars, where they said: One of their main tactic is to use 3 Land Raider Crusader by army, which bring awesome firepower.

Was before the Codex of 4th edition, when only Anti-Armor weapons could take down tanks, (No flame-throwers, no heavy bolters)

But I don't know the result of using this list. Maybe a defeat, due to low range of everything and no anti armor weapons too.

10/11/2013 12:30:11 am

HQ not HG***

Wolan

10/11/2013 06:06:56 am

I think this 'LR rush' it's good idea for only one thing - being bullet magnet.

With new codex, profitable is to deploy one LR/LRC with Assault Terminators. People are often scared of them and will shoot to them with anything they can.

In the same time your opponent will think how to destroy this LR, you can deploy units that aren't so obvious threat, but can do more than this one Land Raider, for example Sternguards Veterans or Bike Squad with Chapter Master on bike.

Even your Rhino spam would be useful in this kind of strategic.

And look on one thing - you will lose 90% of battles because you don't have good scoring units. You have three troops squads and destiny of two of them is to die.

I know that is very fluffy army list and it would be pleasure to play it, but... You can't win many battles with it.

I'm sorry to say, but when I'm looking on SM army lists that take place on top five in tournaments, the key to win is lots of bikes, relentless chapter master with good eq (very often this famous bike Chapter Master) and thunderfire cannons.

It's hard time for us, but I think we can find this 'good' option.

Zeruvar

10/11/2013 03:30:15 pm

Im curious about "top lists".

Does any of them have AA fliers that can take out AV14? Like stormravens/talons with LCs.

10/11/2013 06:54:16 pm

This is SM lists from my last tournament. First list took 2nd place, second took 4th place.

List I (2nd place)
HQ1: Chapter Master (Bike, Artificer Armor, Shield Eternal, Burning Blade, Auspex) 280
Elites1: Contemptor Mortis (2x T-L lascannon) 185
Elites2: Sternguard Veterans (x7) 164
DT1: Drop Pod 35
Troop1: Bike Squad (x5; 2xGravGun, Combi-Grav) 145
Troop2: Bike Squad (x5; 2xGravGun, Combi-Grav) 145
Troop3: Bike Squad (x5; 2xGravGun, Combi-Grav) 145
Troop4: Bike Squad (x5; 2xGravGun, Combi-Grav) 145
FA1: Attack Bike Squad (x3) 135
FA2: StormTalon Gunship (Skyhammer Missiles) 125
FA3: Hyperios Battery (x3) 105
HS1: Thunderfire Cannon 100
HS2: Predator (Turret T-L Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons) 140
TOTAL: 1849
Models: 39
KP: 13

List II (4th place)
HQ: Chapter Master - Artificer Armour, SM Bike, The Shield Eternal, The Burning Blade, Melta bombs - [275]
HQ#: Commander - Twin-linked Missile Pod, Early Warning Override, Shield Generator, XV8-02 Iridium Battlesuit, Command and Control Node, Puritide Engrem Neurochip, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suit, Onager Gauntlet - [215]

Elite1: Contemptor Mortis - Two Twin-linked Lascannons, Cyclone Missile Launcher - [220]
Elite#: XV 104 Riptide - Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker - [210]

Troop1: Bike Squad (5+1) - Veteran Sergeant, 2xMeltagun, Multi-Melta(AB) - [190]
Troop2: Bike Squad (5+1) - Veteran Sergeant, 2xMeltagun, Multi-Melta(AB) - [190]
Troop#1: Kroot Cernivore Squad (11) - Kroot Hound - [65]
Troop#2: Kroot Cernivore Squad (11) - Kroot Hound - [65]

FA1: Stormtalon Gunship - [110]
FA2: Stormtalon Gunship - [110]

HS1: Thunderfire Cannon - [100]
HS2: Thunderfire Cannon - [100]

TOTAL: 1850/1850
MODELS: 44

10/11/2013 08:22:24 pm

Thanks

10/12/2013 12:25:32 pm

Both lists are Illegal: the book pg. 159 say that "Only one of each Chapter Relic may be taken per army. A model can replace ONE weapon with ONE of the following."

mr.pessimist

10/12/2013 11:58:21 pm

Its meh and when you face MC's you're boned. How are you going to kill them? Sniper Scouts? Pfft.

A squad of 10 Hammernators in a Land Raider in cheaper than your Crusader Deathstar and 5 points more expensive than your Honour Guard unit - are you honestly going to tell me there's any contest? In the former all you lose is the ability to score backfield objectives, but since they'll get wiped like wet tracing paper in a tournament environment anyway out of their box, there really isn't much point.
Honour Guard just overkill medium-light infantry and TH/SS Termies don't exactly struggle there even with I1 and less attacks.

On the face of it, this list only works if your Land Raiders survive and the units inside meet favourable circumstances. A single DP or an ignores cover Riptide firing would rip either to pieces out of the box.

Sincollector

10/25/2013 05:37:39 am

Ten hammernators can't ride in a Land Raider. They are Bulky models and take up 2 slots. Also, you seem to be counting the cost of Helbrecht in your comparison of death stars. Are you planning to run your list without an HQ?

10/13/2013 03:58:56 am

@Marshal Gaisgeach

No, they are legal.

'Only one of each...' - You can't duplicate relics. You can take only one of each relic. You can't take two burning blades, but can take two different relics.

You can replace one weapon with one of following... In 6th ed. codex storm shield is no longer weapon and there is no weapon that you can replace. Even when you buying normal storm shield, it's 'may take a storm shield', not 'may replace xyz with a storm shield',

erik åhman

11/3/2013 03:18:49 am

Hi , I tried out your list - Ooh what a mess , some of the blame was of course me :) Against Dark Angels Ravenwing was it not so good , to many targets and had such tough time with the dices ...
And made a couple of mistakes tactically - will try it a couple of more times to see against other armies

Land Raider...rush?

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