Let's keep going shall we?

7/4/2012

First off, Happy 4th of July to those in the United States. May you enjoy the festivities! ;)

Next up, by popular demand, I'm going to continue the trend of building CC-oriented lists in this article. Well, that isn't entirely true...but there is going to be at least one unit that does that job decently enough to be called a dedicated CC unit. However, as I mentioned in my video, I believe using allies gives us the best "balance" for an army. Seems like a waste to not use them, especially when they can fill so many holes, so let's take a look.

HQ:
* Master of Sanctity {Warlord} w/ Power Fist, Crozius Arcanum, and Storm Shield. [150]
* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds." [140]
* Company Command Squad {IG Allies}: 4 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 1 Lasgun, and Close Combat Weapons; 1 Company Commander w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Refractor Field, and Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [135]

Elites:
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 5 Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters. [265]
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 5 Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters. [265]

Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 10 Initiates w/ 8 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Meltagun & 1 Bolt Pistol and Power Fist; 3 Neophytes w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons. Mounted in Land Raider Crusader w/ Smoke Launchers. [483]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. [101]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [155]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [155]

Heavy Support:
* Hydra Flak Tank Battery {IG Allies}: 2 Hydras w/ 4 TL-Hydra Autocannons and 2 Heavy Bolters. [150]

Total Points: [1999]

I've had IG on the brain for a few days now, trying to figure out how to fit them into a list without making it unbalanced or, for lack of a better word, crap. I think I have finally accomplished that goal, though it happened as I was falling asleep last night. It was like a thorn in my dreams. Haha.

Anyway, as I noted at the beginning of the article, I have a pretty hefty CC-unit in this list. Its my only one, but its nasty. In the original version of the list, I also had a Techmarine with a Servo-Harness and a Storm Shield riding along, but I came to the conclusion that would make the list a little unbalanced as it didn't have enough fire support. So I dropped him. As you can see, the Crusader squad is riding in the LRC with both the Chaplain and the Emperor's Champion. These two are going to heavily buff the combat abilities of the squad. Alternatively, you can throw the EC with the shooty Crusader squad if you feel you need that extra body/LD. I think the Chaplain and the Crusader squad is pretty self-explanatory. Lots of attacks and Power Fists. I would have purchased Blessed Hull and Terminator Honors if I could, but there wasn't enough points to do so.

As noted, we have one quickly advancing CC unit that also happens to be a troop squad so claiming an objective with them isn't out of the question. In addition, we have two melta Veteran squads riding in Chimeras. These will be on AT duty (which they excel at) or simply out to claim any objectives. Really depends on the battle to be honest, but they are an extremely versatile unit for us. The last troop squad is a simple Las/Plas Crusader squad who will sit on our own objectives. It is an option to toss the EC with this unit, in order to give it some durability/LD for Righteous Zeal, but I'd only suggest moving him from the large squad if you're really fearing your opponent's long-range weaponry (i.e. DE Splinter Cannons) or out-flankers (i.e. SW Scouts).

Supporting our advancing troops is the Company Command squad. They are mounted in a Chimera and also have triple melta. I tried to find points for an Officer of the Fleet, but again, there simply was none to be had. Obviously, these guys are going to play the AT role as well, but primarily in support of a Veteran squad. Use the Chimeras early on in the game to screen the LRC if you're worried about it, likewise, you can use the LRC to grant cover to the Chimeras. Decide on a game to game basis.

The DCML Terminators are pretty standard issue for us, as we need long range firepower to knock something out right away. I'd go with an Assault Cannon setup, but I fear the lack of range on the first turn is too much of a negative in this particular list. They can either advance forward in a close combat support role, or they can hang back (at least one of them anyway) to guard the Crusader squad. With the 48" range, you have this tactical option. Unlike the Assault Cannons. ;)

Finally, we have the Hydras. Skyfire. Enough said. Heh. Actually, these guys aren't going to do much against Necron flyers, as they have AV13...but they will against Imperial/DE Flyers. Putting them well back in your deployment zone will keep them reasonably safe while they attempt to knock down your opponent's flyers, if they have them. If not, they aren't terrible against other things (even without Interceptor), because of the high rate of fire and twin-linked. Just don't expect to be nearly as effective at it. In either case, 150 points is a small price to pay for how good these things are. Especially if the IG get a revised FAQ to give them Interceptor, which is rumored to happen.

EDIT -- Version 1.1

HQ:
* Master of Sanctity {Warlord} w/ Power Fist, Crozius Arcanum, and Storm Shield. [150]
* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds." [140]
* Company Command Squad {IG Allies}: 4 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 1 Lasgun, and Close Combat Weapons; 1 Company Commander w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Refractor Field, and Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [135]

Elites:
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 5 Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters. [265]
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 5 Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters. [265]

Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 10 Initiates w/ 8 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Meltagun & 1 Bolt Pistol and Power Fist; 3 Neophytes w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons. Mounted in Land Raider Crusader w/ Smoke Launchers and Blessed Hull. [508]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. [101]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [155]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [155]

Fortification:
* Imperial Bastion w/ 1 Quad-Gun and 4 Heavy Bolters. [125]

Total Points: [1999]

EDIT -- Version 2.1

HQ:
* Master of Sanctity {Warlord} w/ Power Fist, Crozius Arcanum, Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, and Terminator Honors. [185]
* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Abhor the Witch." [110]
* Company Command Squad {IG Allies}: 4 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 1 Lasgun, and Close Combat Weapons; 1 Company Commander w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Refractor Field, and Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [135]

Elites:
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 4 Power Fists, 1 Chain Fist, and Tank-Hunters. [270]
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 4 Power Fists, 1 Chain Fist, and Tank-Hunters. [270]

Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 9 Initiates w/ 8 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons & 1 Bolt Pistol and Power Axe; 4 Neophytes w/ 4 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons. Mounted in Land Raider Crusader w/ Blessed Hull, Smoke Launchers, and Searchlights. [488]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. [101]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [155]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [155]

Fast Attack:
* Vendetta {IG Allies} w/ 3 TL-Lascannons and Extra Armor. [130]

Total Points: [1999]

22 Comments

Sharpie

7/4/2012 04:25:07 am

I think Hydra's are obselete, the new Bastion fortification you can buy is 75 pts base with AV14 and 4 Heavy Bolters, and 125 points when you get the Hydra Autocannon platform on it. Its a Heavy 4 twinlinked AC with Skyfire AND Interceptor. It can also be manned by a Crusader Las/Plas Squad to give BS4. So thats 12 S5 AP4 shots, and 4 S7 AP4 TL Skyfire and Interceptor shots at BS4 every turn, and for 25 pts less than a duo of Hydra's.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

7/4/2012 05:17:19 am

Its funny that you mention this, as I decided to leave that commentary out of the article at the last moment. I agree that the Imperial Bastion would be exactly what I need (and would give me the 25 points for Blessed Hull), but it looks like the Nova Open is going to be making some limitations on the Fortifications (i.e. no Fortresses of Redemption). However, we don't know how strict its going to be so I can't really commit to a Bastion just yet. But I will, for sure, if they allow them in the tournament.

It just fits my army way too good to not use. It gives me the Quad-Gun, which isn't as good as having two Hydra Autocannons against Flyers (plus the Auto-Targetting System), but it does have Interceptor as you mentioned so it's not completely terrible against non-flyers. Huge. Not to mention, its packing 4 Heavy Bolters, but I suspect I will only be able to fire two of them at a time. Add in the AV14 nature of the building, plus the fact that my shooty crusader squad can't be hurt directly by shooting, and I'm liking it.

The only downfall is that my Crusader squad wouldn't count as a scoring unit if embarked in the Bastion. I'd have to get out and risk incoming fire. The objective placement is going to be critical, but if Nova is going to follow the same format, it'll have 5 objectives: 1 in the center of the board and 4 centrally located in the 4 table quarters. It could be that Nova's terrain and objective placement makes the Fortification too distant to make capturing it feasible. But I guess we'll soon find out.

7/4/2012 08:11:28 am

If you read the weapons bit on the Bastion profile it actually says the Heavy Bolters are "typically one on each facing", implying you should be able to place them where you like, right?

carcharodon carcharias

7/4/2012 06:18:14 am

Anyone planning to take a pure Templar army into a competitive environment ever again? In fact anyone taking them into friendly games?

Yup, I'm not a fan of allies...

7/4/2012 06:20:01 am

Working on that as we speak! I think Allies make things more balanced, but that doesn't always mean its more competitive. I think pure BT lists will be just fine once updated for the new rules. ;)

7/4/2012 08:23:31 am

Laeroth, do you think we are going to get a new book or do you think we might end up with a WD Codex? I noticed there was very little mention of BT in the 6th Ed Rulebook, even SOB had more than us. Our display page in the middle had Helbrecht, Grimaldus and two Sword Brethren. In the jump infantry section at the start of the book there is a BT Assault Marine, and as far as I have read that is the entirety of our existence in it.

7/4/2012 09:31:42 am

Don't forget to include drop pods! ;p

BigDunc

7/13/2012 08:33:05 am

I understanding *technically* that BT don't have access to drop pods, but this is obviously a mistake and either 1) GW will fix their error or 2) players can petition TO's for the mistake to be overlooked. TO's, after all, have *the* final say when it comes to rules and the argument for us actually having access to drop pods is pretty solid. Considering the Drop Pod door locked and the key thrown away is just defeatist. But, I do have the opinion that drop pods are better in 6E, not worse.

Pyriel

7/4/2012 08:12:04 am

um... do you guys realise how insanely *fluffy* this list is?...
glorious black templar battle brothers coming to the rescue of imperial guard?... with a chaplain on board, you could even kinda replay Grimaldus' story :P

while this list is fluffy and quite cc-oriented (land raider with big squad & 2 ICs, two terminator units, even shooty version, with powerfists & vow=badass; only a mere 5-man-squad is shooty), i dunno how powerful it can be. for some reason i think the best allies for us are the SM codex first and the GK/DA codex second, to fill the gaps in our weak Troops section. we'll see...

Algesan link

7/4/2012 01:43:42 pm

I am going with some Hydras on my testbed list for NOVA because even if they don't get Interceptor (or the ability to choose if they are using Skyfire or not each shooting phase), I expect to see flyer "heavy" lists at NOVA, as well as flying MCs and skimmer based lists particularly since the last two xenos books are skimmer based. Necrons actually have no solution for flyers except their own flyers or massive amounts of focussed firepower (which they can lay down) from big squads.

That is an interesting list, although I'd say swap out some of that IG melta for flamers and put heavy bolters back on the hull mounts of the Chimeras. The D3 for flamers in Overwatch is nice to have since it doesn't depend on BS1 shooting. I might change my mind on the Chimera hull gun once I get back home and read some more, because I'm not sure if it is walkers only that get Overwatch or only vehicles with a WS and don't moving vehicles get WS1? Which would mean if you move, you get to Overwatch and then the hull heavy flamer would be invaluable.

7/4/2012 01:52:41 pm

Darn, need an edit button.

If the costs had been corrected in line with the rest of the Marine codices, then I wouldn't have a problem with a full BT list, but that would mean 40 point Razorbacks and 35 point Rhinos. It just gets too expensive otherwise. If it wasn't for the "round up" part of the altered Drop Pod Assault rule, I actually might be trying my DS list anyway, just shaving a few points off to get a couple of Drop Pods as DTs for my Terminators (although they would drop empty) and simply have one squad come in as an early objective seizer or suicide melta squad.

Unless MVB really changes the terrain meta a lot, then NOVA should have plenty of room to put a bastion in place to cover at least one of the objectives in the four quarters. Yes, at the end you will have to step out to control it, but it is just something you will have to do. The question for Marshal Laeroth to answer: Would you have found a use for a 29" wall you could deploy in your starting areas with a 4+ cover save last year?

7/6/2012 02:55:51 pm

"The question for Marshal Laeroth to answer: Would you have found a use for a 29" wall you could deploy in your starting areas with a 4+ cover save last year?"

To be honest with you, my shooting troops always had cover if they weren't embarked in a transport, so that wasn't an issue. But if it was there, I think it would have been used...probably too much for my own good, as I might have considered it a crutch. It was only after I started using my mobility that I started to win. So in the end, I think it would have been a detriment to my games.

brandon rufus

7/4/2012 11:18:31 pm

Hey Laeroth.
Blackwing?? :-D

7/6/2012 12:46:36 pm

Its on the list! :D

7/6/2012 10:36:45 pm

:D!

7/9/2012 12:34:22 pm

Here is an alternative list, should the Imperial Bastion be disallowed:

HQ:
* Master of Sanctity {Warlord} w/ Power Fist, Crozius Arcanum, and Storm Shield. [150]
* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds." [140]
* Company Command Squad {IG Allies}: 4 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 1 Lasgun, and Close Combat Weapons; 1 Company Commander w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Refractor Field, and Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [135]

Elites:
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 4 Power Fists, 1 Chain Fist, and Tank-Hunters. [270]
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 4 Power Fists, 1 Chain Fist, and Tank-Hunters. [270]

Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 10 Initiates w/ 8 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Meltagun & 1 Bolt Pistol and Power Fist; 3 Neophytes w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons. Mounted in Land Raider Crusader w/ Smoke Launchers. [483]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. [101]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [155]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [155]

Fast Attack:
* Vendetta {IG Allies} w/ 3 TL-Lascannons, 2 Heavy Bolters, and Extra Armor. [140]

Total Points: [1999]

This gives me a flyer, as well as additional armor saturation...but I will suffer from lack of "protection" for the foot-based Crusader squad. Which does make me a little sad-face. I'm undecided on which version is better. The first plays a little more defensively, while the second is more aggressive in nature. Considering the terrain at Nova, perhaps the second list is the way to go...

7/9/2012 12:44:44 pm

@ Sharpie

I'm more inclined to say a codex, but I'm not sure if that is more wishful thinking, due to what I know. However, what I can say is that rumors are picking up quickly regarding "mini-dexes" and what I have in regards to the BT can just as easily be printed in the WD, as in a codex. The main difference is the amount of fluff being presented. However, I addressed this topic when I contacted Games Workshop the other day (though I've yet to hear back).

@ carcharodon carcharias

Even if it were legal to do so right now (FAQ'd that ability right out)...they scare me. The new rules are super blah, but I'm sure I can figure something out. Just makes me sad face, as DDP's were REALLY effective.

7/10/2012 03:05:30 am

I think Fortifications, especially the Fortress, are going to go through a phase of fad followed by fail. Not that they are so bad, but they will induce people to turtle. In fact, since I'm currently looking at a list with no fortifications or simply an Aegis (which is just a nice way to get AA and build my own ruins) and in general, he who moves wins I think, I'd love to see everyone be able to get a Fortress...

The Bastion is good, small enough you cannot do much with it, tough enough that it will take some effort to deal with it. With Double FoC in place, I could see a Bastion/Aegis combo setting up a base of fire for your maneuver element.

Two major uses for the Aegis: 1) Movement blocking obstacle to help slow the enemy advance & 2) Quick and easy "fort" for multiple uses. Of course, these combine and there are other benefits... say, a fort with 2-3 MM squads on the side of the board with little to no terrain, you get area denial and an AT trap vs a heavily mechanized foe, but against a large foot force that you can outmaneuver, set up a line to funnel or stall them in a killing zone.

((("The question for Marshal Laeroth to answer: Would you have found a use for a 29" wall you could deploy in your starting areas with a 4+ cover save last year?"

To be honest with you, my shooting troops always had cover if they weren't embarked in a transport, so that wasn't an issue. But if it was there, I think it would have been used...probably too much for my own good, as I might have considered it a crutch. It was only after I started using my mobility that I started to win. So in the end, I think it would have been a detriment to my games.)))

7/13/2012 08:27:53 am

Consider bringing the LRC as a heavy support choice to take advantage of Big Guns Never Tire. Admittedly, most large tourney's will have their own missions (FoB, for example) and it won't matter. But, in general, it'll be a good habit to transfer units to HS and FA slots when possible.

Also, I think LRC aren't as good as they used to be. They just don't provide the same firepower. The standard LR deserves another evaluation.

7/13/2012 02:49:22 pm

The list was built for Nova Open 2012, which isn't using the "BGNT" special rule...so I didn't really bother putting it there. If I was going to another tournament where it was in play, or if I didn't know, I'd switch it to Heavy Support. :)

The LRC holds more dudes, which is why I am taking it. Plus, the Blessed Hull/Extra Armor is nice for protection purposes. Additionally, I am a little top-heavy on AT I think, so the added AI is nice to have. But I agree...the normal LR is more viable now in 6th Edition. However, I think they are better in a different role. :)

Chad

7/14/2012 05:21:27 am

Hi Marshall Laeroth, I've never posted a comment before, but I must ask this question about your current list. Now that your Warlord has grown to 185pts, why not find 10 more points and take Grimaldus?

7/14/2012 05:25:41 am

Excellent question! Fortunately, its a question that I have devoted some time to in my HQ unit analysis that is going to be released in a couple hours. The short answer? He no longer kills MEQ effectively and doesn't have a 2+ save.

Let's keep going shall we?

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