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List Analysis -- PA2 Sword Brethren v2.3

3/24/2020

14 Comments

 
Good afternoon everyone!  Over the course of the past few weeks, I've gotten a lot of emails asking to do some analysis on my lists: how I use them and why I chose those units.  So I am going to start with the list that has gone through a ton of iterations since Faith and Fury, to a point where I think its pretty optimized.  The meta has shifted, especially after the FAQ to nerf Iron Hands (and lesser so Raven Guard), so we've needed to adjust our lists slightly to compensate.  Let's take a look at my current version of my PA2 Sword Brethren list.
~ Sword Brethren Brigade Detachment (Black Templars) ~

HQ:
​* Marshal (Captain) w/ Teeth of Terra and Jump Pack.  [93] *Field Commander -- Master Swordsman*
* Chaplain (Master of Sanctity) w/ 1x Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack, and Crusader Helm. LItany of Divine Protection and Fires of Devotion.  [90]
* High Marshal Helbrecht.  [150]  *Warlord -- Frontline Commander*

ELITES:
* Vanguard Veterans (1x Sergeant and 9x Veterans) w/ 1x Sword of Judgement, 3x Thunder Hammers, 7x Storm Shields, 3x Chainswords, 3x Dual Chainswords, and Jump Packs. [236]
* Invictor Tactical Warsuit w/ 1x Incendium Cannon.  [131]
* Invictor Tactical Warsuit w/ 1x Incendium Cannon.  [131]
* Invictor Tactical Warsuit w/ 1x Incendium Cannon.  [131]
* Company Veterans (1x Sergeant and 3x Veterans) w/ 4x Power Swords and 4x Storm Bolters.  [80]
* Company Veterans (1x Sergeant and 3x Veterans) w/ 4x Power Swords and 4x Storm Bolters.  [80]

TROOPS:
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]

FAST ATTACK:
* Land Speeder Tempest w/ 1x Assault Cannon and 2x Tempest Salvo Launchers. [87]
* Suppressor Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Suppressors) w/ 3x Accelerator Autocannons and Grav-chuts. [90]
* Suppressor Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Suppressors) w/ 3x Accelerator Autocannons and Grav-chuts. [90]

HEAVY SUPPORT:
* Eliminator Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Eliminators) w/ 3x Bolt Sniper Rifles.  [72]
* Eliminator Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Eliminators) w/ 3x Bolt Sniper Rifles.  [72]
* Eliminator Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Eliminators) w/ 3x Bolt Sniper Rifles.  [72]

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:
* Drop Pod w/ 1x Storm Bolter.  [65]

STRATAGEMS:
* Black Templars Sword Brethren Detachment (-1CP)
* Master of Sanctity (-1CP)
* Field Commander (-1CP)
* Relics of the Chapter (-1CP)
* Crusader Relics -- Sword of Judgement (-1CP)

TOTAL POINTS/CP: [2000]/[10 CP]

So as you can see, I am running one brigade detachment, but it is utilizing the Sword Brethren specialist designation from the Vigilus Defiant book for 1 CP. The main need is for Master Swordsman and Field Commander so that we can field the Teeth of Terra Captain for our army, but it also gives us access to two stratagems that only impact "Sword Brethren" models (e.g. Captains, Helbrecht, Company Veterans, etc).  While you may not see their use often, it is a nice little trick up your sleeve to increase damage output or defense if you need it.  The brigade itself opens up a lot of CP for pre-game use, as well as during the game.  We all of the stratagems available to us, we need to ensure we have an adequate supply during the game.

All right, time to look at my HQ slot.  First on the list is our Marshal (Captain).  He will take Field Commander so that the warlord trait "Master Swordsman" is accessible to him.  In addition, he will take the Space Marine relic Teeth of Terra.  This guy generates a ton of attacks and wounds, especially when you are in Assault Doctrine and is practically a must-take for our lists.  Not only does he get 9 attacks on the charge via the ToT relic, you will on average generate another 1.5 attacks from Master Swordsman.  Absolute monster to everything T5 and under.  The marshal has a jump pack to grant him FLY, which dramatically improves his mobility and ability to bring his reroll 1's aura where you need it.  We also have High Marshal Helbrecht, who is in the list as our warlord.  As he will be protected by two squads of company veterans to tank wounds for him, as well as his nice stat-line, he shouldn't be going anywhere anytime soon.  It also unlocks his warlord trait of Frontline Commander, which will increase charge and advance rolls by 1".  With there being several units coming out of a drop pod near the enemy, this increase will be hugely beneficial to ensure our dangerous units make their charges.  Add in his strength +1 and full reroll to hit auras, and you will find that he is a buffing machine.  Helbrecht is no slouch in close combat either, which a staggering 9 attack potential (8 is average though) and Strength 6.  Lastly, we have our Master of Sanctity, who is also armed with a jump pack.  This aids in his mobility around the board, as well as generating litanies for our army.  The Fires of Devotion litany is pretty standard fair here, as it is a straight buff to a close combat unit each turn.  The idea is to follow behind the vanguard veterans to increase their damage potential.  I've chosen Litany of Divine Protection as the second litany, as the MoS will be accompanying the Vanguard Vets and they are one of the most important units on the board for us.  It would be a huge loss for the list to have this unit destroyed prematurely.  With that being said, Psalm of Remorseless Persecution is a perfectly acceptable choice here and will certainly increase the damage output of one of the most important units in the list, as well as others within its range.  The MoS also has the Crusader Helm, which helps facilitate the getting into assault doctrine earlier.  It will (if an FAQ comes out confirming it) also allow those litany aura's to be increased by 3".  Right now, RAW says that it already does this, but its always nice to confirm.  Can't complain about 9" Litany of Hate and potentially, Psalm of the Remorseless Persecution.

Now, the Elites slot.  Here is the meat of the list.  We have two units of four Company Veterans armed with storm bolters and power swords, three units of Invictors with Incendium Cannons, and one big unit of Vanguard Vets decked out in storm shields and close combat weapons.  These are the guys that are going to be really putting the pressure on your opponent.  The first line of attack is the Invictors, who are going to be utilizing the insanely powerful concealed positions special rule to get very close to the enemy.  Depending on the deployment map and who has first turn, you could very well have these guys in your opponent's army on the very first turn.  They definitely hold their own as well, with five strength 14/-3 AP/Dmg 3 attacks.  That's not even counting their firepower potential.  Just that alone will kill a touch over 7 MEQ a turn left unchallenged.  To help box your opponent in, you have a drop pod filled with Helbrecht and the two squads of Company Veterans.  These guys will lay down excellent supporting fire with their storm bolters (remember to reroll all fails from Helbrecht's aura), then charge in to lay the hurt down.  With power swords, hit rerolls, and the +1 Strength aura from Helbrecht, these guys are putting the hurt on anything without a 3++/4++ save in close combat.  As such, they can target just about anything you need to eliminate.  Or due to their reasonable price...set them up as threats to eat up attention.  Just remember, you can utilize these guys to soak up wounds from Helbrecht and then attempt to save the mortal wound via our Chapter Tactics.  You really don't need the assault doctrine with these guys, but once it activates, the veterans are only going to get better.  You will also see potential use of our two stratagems from the Sword Brethren detachment on these guys.  The Vanguard Veterans fill out our elites slot as the dedicated close combat threat in the list.  These guys had thunder hammers and chainswords primarily, but with 7 of the members of the unit with storm shields, they can take a surprising amount of firepower.  Buffed with the Crusader Helm, Captain's aura, and litanies from our chaplain, we turn these average close combat threats into a monstrosity that will eat through most anything (even Knights!).  They are perfect for tagging multiple enemies with their FLY.

The troops slot is rather simple: six units of 5 scouts.  They are cheap and very excellent carriers of the concealed position special rule, allowing you to deploy to counter your opponent's deployment.  Need to keep your opponent from using deep strike shenanigans?  Screen with your scouts.  Need a small, cheap squads for objectives?  Perfect.  They are also good harassment units in close combat, with decent stratagem support.  While a five man scout isn't going to knock off anything scary, you can use them to put some wounds on your opponents important squads or simply to tag their units.  If you survive the ensuing combat, pop your stratagem to keep your opponent right where they are.  Or you can use them to overload your opponents with targets and push them deeper into their deployment zone.  Obviously this doesn't work with FLY units, but armies that rely on shooting will suffer greatly if these units are stuck in combat with lowly scout squads.

Fast Attack has a land speeder who is there primarily to capture objectives in ITC and hopefully put some meaningful wounds on a few of your opponent's units.  With the recent point deductions to the Tempest, this guy is a straight upgrade over the more long range Typhoon.  More wounds, toughness, and better guns never hurts an army.  They also have the happy ability to generate a -1 to hit against the Tempest if they advance 20-35".  Excellent way to claim objectives at the end of the game.  Our two units of Suppressors have two roles.  First, to ensure our enemy does not overwatch our units in the charge phase.  This is especially important in the first couple turns, which fortunately, devastator doctrine assists us with.  Pick a couple units who are especially dangerous to us and go at it.  The second role is to go monster/vehicle hunting.  Between the two squads, you're putting out 12 Str 7 attacks, with -2 AP, and 2 damage.  Not great, but certainly could be worse.

Last, but certainly not least...Eliminators.  These three units fill our heavy support slot.  These guys are an absolute nightmare for your opponent's characters, which can make or break a list.  At the stupidly cheap price of 72 points an unit, you can throw these guys in cover and shrug off tons of incoming fire.  All the while, knocking off critical pieces on your opponents side of the board.  These guys can also hide behind line of sight cover and still put fire down on your opponent, which is huge.

So the basic strategy is as follows.  Conceal Position your Invictors as close to your opponent as possible, taking special care to utilize cover if its available.  These are going to be your "first wave".  Due to your concealed positioned rule, your opponent will not know where you are coming from and will likely have tried to deploy to minimize their impact on the board.  However, since you also have a drop pod full of death, your opponent will have to be very choice on their deployment.  Castling will force them into their deployment zone too soon and you will tie up their units quickly.  You don't always have to kill stuff to win, as tagging their army with units to block their movement is huge.  They can also spread out, but then they are vulnerable to multi-charges and reducing the impact of their own shooting, while opening themselves up to yours.  Between the drop pod and the invictors, your opponent will be thinking pretty hard about you coming their way.  2nd wave might actually be a first turn charge from the vanguard veterans if everything worked out well with deployment.  Vanguard vets have a huge 28" threat range with stratagem use and if properly buffed, can potentially cripple your opponent first turn.  Everything else in the list follows up later or supports those main elite units.  Very balanced, while still throwing a ton of dangerous units your opponents direction.

In the next week, we're going to start a new article series covering questions I have been getting from a fellow Black Templars player and how to attack things like list building, tactics using those lists, and unit opinions.  Have a safe day everyone!
14 Comments
Nathan
3/28/2020 03:06:52 pm

Thanks for the list and the breakdown of how it works. I find these write ups super useful!

Where are you sourcing that many suppressor squads?

Reply
Marshal Laeroth (Admin)
3/28/2020 03:14:10 pm

Hello! I will be doing a great many more of these types of write-ups here in the future. In fact, I am working on a new series as I write this. I just have to get...permission from the subject. Haha.

I was fortunate in that I purchased the Space Marine side of the Shadow Spear box set, and an additional two sets of the Suppressors early on in 8th Edition (for dirt cheap too!) because I liked their rules. Before they became the big thing. Then they got a points reduction and everyone else jumped on board too. Haha.

Reply
Marshall Rich
3/29/2020 12:11:30 am

Very nice looking list. The Teeth of Terra relic had totally passed me by, but that's definitely a strong option for a Jump Marshall in our list. It may just be my imagination, but I feel like melee armies like the Black Templars have so many more options and builds to consider then your average shooty Marine Army.

I guess the main questions I have are 1. Is the Crusader's Helm worth giving up the Ancient Breviary for? I tend to find my litany rolls failing all the time without it. You can always spend cp to get a reroll, but that gets expensive, and you can only do it once during your Chaplain rolls.

2. Almost all the S8 and higher attacks are from the Invictors. Now, I've not played using an Invictor yet, but I do wonder if there would be a way for the enemy to screen them out and make their heavy armor untouchable. That's not an easy task, when your have 3 Invictors with Incendium Cannons, plus Neophytes/Scouts screening for your Invictors. But it still seems possible to me.

Reply
Marshal Laeroth (Admin)
4/2/2020 11:14:00 am

Thanks! It has been performing very well for me as of late, especially with the Iron Hands nerf. Starting to see some issues with Grey Knights, though...so I might need to make some adjustments there. A quicker fix would probably be simply taking Hero of the Chapter on the chaplain to open up Epitome of Piety in the list.

Its not just you...close combat lists are starting to gain some traction in the meta. And we are in a prime place to take advantage of it. To answer your first question, there is equal arguments for it. I tend to play extremely aggressive, so the Crusader Helm is beneficial to me as I can guarantee the significant buffs that they provide to close combat (it automatically goes off, as long as they are in range). I always shoot for a first turn charge with them, with them getting there no later than second turn. However, with that being said...Ancient Breviary nearly guarantees that the Litanies go off on their target, which also increases their damage potential by huge margins (and/or defensive capabilities if going with Divine Protection). It is also beneficial if holding the Vanguard Vets back to counter-charge. So really, its up to the person playing the list. I could go both ways.

The second question is certainly a good one. So here is the deal...the hard counter to this list is Iron Hands, Imperial Knights, or vehicle heavy Guard armies. Fortunately, the second two lists are not all that prevalent in the meta and Iron Hands are falling out of favor fast. So we can afford to go light on higher strength weapons and rely on close combat to get the job done. While the Invictors are a good source of those attacks, you are correct: they can get screened. But you cannot screen out the Vanguard Veterans who are armed with Thunder Hammers. These will easily kill a vehicle a turn in close combat, especially if under litany help. We also have the Suppressors and Land Speeder for light vehicle/monster help. Otherwise, its not falling into your opponent's gameplan and work your own by wrapping/tagging your opponents units.

Reply
Nathan
4/7/2020 01:24:43 pm

Uh oh. The main guys I play against are Nids, Deatg Guard, Thousand Sons, grey knights, knights.

Do you find that the Vets are little squishy for the cost? Once I get them on the board they’re a huge target and with only one wound thy tend to wilt quickly

Marshal Laeroth (Admin)
4/8/2020 12:28:46 pm

@ Nathan

You shouldn't have too many issues with any of your normal opponents, except for the Imperial Knight player. For the IK list, the Vanguard Vets are supremely effective at killing knights. Then just play the mission. Difficult, but winnable games. And to combat the growing number of Grey Knight players, I've made some adjustments to the list to include some additional psyker defense.

~ Sword Brethren Brigade Detachment (Black Templars) ~

HQ:
​* Marshal (Captain) w/ Teeth of Terra and Jump Pack. [93] *Field Commander -- Master Swordsman*
* Chaplain (Master of Sanctity) w/ 1x Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack, and Ancient Breviary. Litany of Divine Protection and Fires of Devotion. [90] *Hero of the Chapter -- Epitome of Piety*
* High Marshal Helbrecht. [150] *Warlord -- Frontline Commander*

ELITES:
* Vanguard Veterans (1x Sergeant and 9x Veterans) w/ 4x Thunder Hammers, 7x Storm Shields, 3x Chainswords, 3x Dual Chainswords, and Jump Packs. [248]
* Invictor Tactical Warsuit w/ 1x Incendium Cannon. [131]
* Invictor Tactical Warsuit w/ 1x Incendium Cannon. [131]
* Invictor Tactical Warsuit w/ 1x Incendium Cannon. [131]
* Company Veterans (1x Sergeant and 3x Veterans) w/ 4x Power Swords and 4x Storm Bolters. [80]
* Company Veterans (1x Sergeant and 3x Veterans) w/ 4x Power Swords and 4x Storm Bolters. [80]

TROOPS:
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]
* Neophyte Squad (1x Sergeant and 4x Scouts) w/ 5x Bolt Pistols, and 5x Chainswords. [55]

FAST ATTACK:
* Scout Bike Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Scouts) w/ 1x Storm Bolter. [72]
* Suppressor Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Suppressors) w/ 3x Accelerator Autocannons and Grav-chuts. [90]
* Suppressor Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Suppressors) w/ 3x Accelerator Autocannons and Grav-chuts. [90]

HEAVY SUPPORT:
* Eliminator Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Eliminators) w/ 3x Bolt Sniper Rifles. [72]
* Eliminator Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Eliminators) w/ 3x Bolt Sniper Rifles. [72]
* Eliminator Squad (1x Sergeant and 2x Eliminators) w/ 3x Bolt Sniper Rifles. [72]

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:
* Drop Pod w/ 1x Storm Bolter. [65]

STRATAGEMS:
* Black Templars Sword Brethren Detachment (-1CP)
* Master of Sanctity (-1CP)
* Field Commander (-1CP)
* Relics of the Chapter (-1CP)
* Hero of the Chapter (-1CP)

TOTAL POINTS/CP: [1996]/[10 CP]


As for the Vets, are you talking the Vanguard Vets or Company Vets? The Vanguard Vets have a lot of storm shields and will be protected by Litany of Divine Protection, which actually gives them a ton of durability. Their cost is a little high due to the thunder hammers, but that is why they get character babysitters. We also have distraction units that are definitely nothing to sniff at if your opponent decides to prioritize the Vanguard instead. The Company vets are definitely expendable.

Reply
Nathan Schroeder
4/12/2020 09:53:08 pm

I was talking about the vanguard vets. I love the unit but they’ve been dying pretty quickly.

How are you giving Helbrect frontline commander? I can’t see that option in BattleScribe.

Reply
Marshal Laeroth (Admin)
4/13/2020 12:35:05 am

I though so. Well, they do have above average durability due to the storm shields and Litany of Divine Protection, but even still...enough firepower will eventually put them down. Being 1/8th of the list hurts if they die, but at the same time...there is enough dangerous units in the list that makes it to my opponent if they are left to their own devices by prioritizing the Vanguard Vets.

Helbrecht's default warlord trait is Frontline Commander if he is chosen as a warlord/hero of the chapter.

Reply
Nathan
4/13/2020 01:05:40 am

Thanks for walking me through all this. It’s been over a decade since implied regularly and I wasn’t any good then so I have a lot of catching up to do!

Marshal Killagaro
4/17/2020 03:45:42 am

You are a true inspiration for all our fellow brothers! I learned how to play and win (many games) thanks to your experience and tactical abilities.
Keep posting lists, they are very useful in order to bring the emperor's light everywhere in the universe!
Can't wait to see your battle reports!
Cheers

Reply
Marshal Laeroth (Admin)
4/17/2020 08:43:52 pm

Haha. Thanks, I appreciate it. I am glad that I was able to help you! Battle reports unfortunately cannot happen until the COVID-19 stuff passes. But I would love to get some up there for ya'll. Soon, I hope!

As for list building, I am constantly building lists. Its one of my favorite things to do. So yes, I will still be writing about them. :D

Reply
Grimaldus
4/19/2020 04:06:49 am

Thanks for the detailed breakdown of your list. I've used some of thre concepts as base for mine. One question - for the 5 man Neophyte (scout) squads - surely only the sargeant can take a chainsword? Is that a typo or have I missed something?

Reply
Marshal Laeroth (Admin)
4/19/2020 11:23:39 am

You are absolutely correct. Only the sergeant has access to the chainsword. However, the combat knives have the same rules so I just list them as the same weapon to save typing time.

Reply
Grimaldus
4/19/2020 11:47:56 am

Makes total sense. Really enjoying going through your blog content - thanks again!

Reply



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