Some BT Thoughts...

7/2/2012

Hello again! Had a few things on my mind, so decided to make a video about a few things about the Black Templars. Nothing specific for this one, just basic overviews. While I normally prefer putting everything down on "paper", so its easier to reference for people, a change every once in a while is nice. Hopefully you guys are able to follow my rambling. Beware, its 22 minutes long. :D

10 Comments

Algesan link

7/2/2012 03:25:27 pm

Well, that was different, but it is nice to be able to reread what you just wrote rather than have to keep resetting the video. ;)

I'll note that while I didn't blow out like you did, my piddling little 30-35 unique viewers jumped to 70-75, which shocked me.

Part of the advantage of taking a Chaplain is being able to save points by not having to take a SS for our Iron Halo-less Commander. <sigh> Too much fun. I have books all over the house and cannot locate my BT codex to cross reference the FAQ to the BRB.

Mitthurin

7/3/2012 12:30:02 pm

Your analysis of AAC is well done, though i feel that it rewards a very agressive playstyle that most templars players may have trouble with initially.
I am very interested in how our other vows hold up, eg. does Abhor stack with deny the witch saves? Will it even be relevant as it only mitigates targeted powers? Does the initiative hit from Suffer Not make it unusable? I'm not even going to dignify Uphold with a question yet but I think you can see my point. (btw a crude brief mathhammer analysis of 5 man crusader squads hitting rear armour 10 showed an insignificant increase in damage results going from the powerfist with rage to a poweraxe with suffer not, so the two are are nigh equal against most transports and vehicles).

Concerning allies, i think you hit the nail on the head with the Space marine captain on a bike - though part of me wants a MotF so we can take 2 rifleman dreads (1 elites, 1 heavy support). A shooty silt might benefit from IG more as has been noted elsewhere but I am not sure what configuration that might look like.

Lucion

7/3/2012 01:30:57 pm

I had a question for people.

Any good, dedicated writer's out there? Bob - your in. I know Alegsan like's to talk about the historical aspects and Devjon like's to talk about the Codex. Who else is a dedicated writer?

If you can come forwards with skills you have also, this would be helpful to me.

Laeroth: Relator - An ability to relate to people, see their hopes and dreams, (taken from strengths finder 2.0)

When I mean good writer I dont mean mindlessly churning out stuff.
I dont mean copying other people or trying to sound like your out to please a crowd. That's how you dilute your own message trying to be someone who your not.

I mean Progression in the gaming community whether in the competitive tournament environment or on the painting/hobby scene.

I am going to the Masterclass event with Cacharadon in August if anyone wants to talk there

Otherwise get in touch with Laeroth or let me know here.

Bob if you get 300 mails and alot are about the same thing, I would suggest making an FAQ linked in with an auto-responder sequence.

You can also get people to subscribe to a mailing list, and they are sent a series of emails which go over the basics.

This could be a Templar E course.
Sitting there with 300 mails is not optimal leveraging of your time. An FaQ and auto responder sequence would solve this.
However your passions have succeeded in attracting people who need problems solved which is good. But the 300 emails has not converted into winner's or success's in tournaments, a positive shift, but it could be much more.

Fortunately, we can make a change to that.

Lucion

7/3/2012 01:41:45 pm

Anyone have access to a quick up to date summary of the major changes in 6th?

Algesan link

7/4/2012 02:03:15 am

I don't think there is one yet. There is nothing I'd call a "big" change as it relates to the basics of move, shoot, assault, but a lot of little stuff is popping up that synergizes. Vehicles are faster, but you are less able to assault out of them. Shooting got better, CC got weaker overall.

@ Mitthurin: I've got a couple of BT/IG lists up over on my site and you can see some in the comments of earlier posts here. Pretty much a toss up, BT primary with some IG troops barely squeezed in to grab objectives, or IG primary with a bit more firepower with BT heavy hitters taking most of the points as allies.

Amusement for me: Big reason to take minimal IG primary was because of the new need to buy a second BT HQ, but to get the second THDC Terminator squad, you have to buy a second BT HQ....

Rage analysis, meh. Assault Terminators, 3xTLC, 2xTH/SS. On the charge, with rerolls to hit (old PE) 11.75 MEQ killed. Being charged: 8.5 MEQ killed.
New config Rage + 5xTH/SS, on the charge: 8.33 MEQ killed. Being charged: 4.167 MEQ killed.

Yes, Rage can be lived with, but when it kills less on the charge than you could kill when being charged with the old PE, please don't tell me it is better. It can be in certain limited situations, but add in the fact that you lose Rage when multicharging and it really loses its "shine". Definitely isn't worth 50 points, maybe 10, 15 tops like applying any other generic USR to a group of models.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

7/4/2012 02:34:08 am

I need to remind everyone that I didn't say it was better, I said it is a viable alternative considering we don't get a choice in the matter. However, you comparison is slightly off. If you're going to compare something before and after, you have to do it with the same equipment and skills. :/

Assault Terminators, 3xTLC, 2xTH/SS. On the charge, with rerolls to hit (old PE) 11.75 MEQ killed. Being charged: 8.5 MEQ killed.

New config Rage + 3xTLC, 2xTH/SS, on the charge: 10.00 MEQ killed. Being charged: 5.042 MEQ killed.

Old config AAC + 5xTH/SS, on the charge: 9.375 MEQ killed. Being charged: 6.25 MEQ killed.

New config Rage + 5xTH/SS, on the charge: 8.33 MEQ killed. Being charged: 4.167 MEQ killed.

So not nearly as bad as you make it sound. Really, its apples and oranges. None of it we can control. You didn't mention the change to Lightning Claws and how they are now pretty much crap against Terminators. You also didn't mention the change to Furious Charge, which caused us to lose that all important +1 initiative on the charge. Which, ironically, forced us to time our charges to gain it's benefit...Neither of these are direct nerfs to our codex specifically, as everyone has to deal with those changes. What is also not included, is the effect a Chaplain can make on such a unit when they charge. While not everyone will put their HQ in such an already killy unit, you have the option. And when you do, the new configuration far outstrips the old one on the charge.

Again, where Rage fails, is when you get assaulted yourself. I admit that 100%. Do I agree its slightly overpriced? Yes. By about 10 points. In 4th Edition, we paid 50 points for 3+ to hit in close combat. THAT was way overpriced. And also extremely crap. By comparison, Rage is pretty damn good.

I also believe that, as players, we have a huge part in deciding if/when we get charged. Sometimes its to our benefit, but as was noted above, it forces players to take a more aggressive-mindset to the battlefield. Which, if we BT players were as CC-minded as we claimed, this wouldn't be a problem at all. But it turns out, people were actually more on the side of caution (like me -- running more balanced lists) after all. Its a little humorous, as I'm the one who got crucified for it, but when the tables are turned...?

Lucion

7/4/2012 02:33:40 am

Thanks Algesan. I ordered the book today. Sounds like people need more time to digest.

What do you mean by synergizes - more synergy in the game?

Goldwhyn

7/5/2012 03:37:17 am

After watching the video I decided I wanted to leave a comment, since you (Marshal Laeroth) asked so nicely. Specifically, I wanted to thank you for the service that you and the other BT blogs (Algesan, Nikephoros, etc.) provide for the community. Namely: providing an Oasis of Reason amdist the turbulent internet sea of rage quiters, trolls, and Chicken Little’s.

So on behalf of all the lurkers who gleefully skulk around your pages without posting, we thank you.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

7/8/2012 02:19:33 am

Heh. Thanks for the kind words. I'll do my best to continue to process. :)

Algesan link

7/5/2012 08:21:57 am

@Lucion - Yes, there are some synergies, but in this case I'm referring to the "disordered assault" rule, which says that if you multiassault, then you get absolutely no attack bonus at all for charging. Whereas for me, multiassault was bread and butter most of the time, whether it was to kill stuff or tarpit it, I didn't charge single items much. Otherwise...

Yes, there are plenty of synergies in rules available. Like using Precision shots from characters (not just ICs) in Shooting and CC to pick out targets and if they aren't characters don't get to use "Look Out, Sir!". OT a bit, but using Mindshackle Scarabs on a Necron Overlord riding a Command Barge (Fast, Skimmer, Chariot). First you buzz over them doing the Sweep attack during movement, then shoot them with the underslung gun, then charge them with Hammer of Wrath (d6 S6 AP- hits on I10), have the Overlord Mindshackle one model (and if he can call a character out, that would be sweeter) at 50/50 chance (vs Ld 10) of success and then swing your S7 AP1 attacks.

Some BT Thoughts...

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