This year's Nova Open comes to a close...

9/2/2012

Well, I'm here for another night and my plane leaves early in the morning...but the GT is done and over. Awards are in about an hour. I am very pleased with how it ended up for myself. Finished with an overall 5-3 record. The first two games were rough, I will admit that. Took losses to a 150-man Orc player and a semi-flyer Necron list. Unfortunately, I didn't have my Vendetta for those first two games, because it was smashed after I dropped it on the way downstairs. There wasn't enough time to fix it before my games, so my opponent got free kills and no flyer to deal with. And in the case of the necron player, nothing reliable to kill his flyers with. That was the deal breaker.

Took one more loss the next day, but notched 3 wins (including my last two games to put me in the Finals today) to bring me at an even 3-3. I'd have been happy with even that. First game today, my opponent didn't show up so I scored a forfeit victory. But since MVBrandt wanted us at the same "fatigue" level as our Game 8 opponents, I got paired up with another guy whose opponent didn't show. We didn't just play each other originally, cause we were in separate brackets so we just used this game for scoring purposes. I ended up winning this game too, so I don't feel like I cheated my way into a free win. Finished with a "finals" score of 4-0, so I won Best General in my bracket (#11). Yay for me.

List analysis will come later tonight probably, but I do have a minor comment: my list did just fine. Even against Flyers. :P

When I get back home, I'll start filtering through the forum posts...cause I see there is quite a few of them now. As well as try and start to make a dent on emails. Then Implausible Nature is getting a 6th Edition face-lift! ;)

Just in case you forgot what my list was...

HQ:
* Master of Sanctity {Warlord} w/ Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Crozius Arcanum, Terminator Armor, and Tank Hunters; 1 Terminator Command Squad Sword Brethren w/ Storm Bolter, Power Fist, and Tank-Hunters; 2 Sword Brethren w/ Cyclone Missile Launchers, Storm Bolters, Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters; 1 Sergeant w/ Power Sword, Storm Bolter, and Tank-Hunters. [405]
* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch." [110]
* Company Command Squad {IG Allies}: 4 Veterans w/ 3 Meltaguns, 1 Lasgun, and Close Combat Weapons; 1 Company Commander w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Refractor Field, and Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [135]

Elites:
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 7 Assault Terminators w/ 4 Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields & 3 Pairs of Lightning Claws. [280]

Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and CCWs, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Multi-Melta. Mounted in a Rhino w/ Searchlights. [147]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and CCWs, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Multi-Melta. Mounted in a Rhino w/ Searchlights. [147]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolt Pistols and CCWs, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Multi-Melta. Mounted in a Rhino. [146]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Plasmaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [170]
* Veteran Squad {IG Allies}: 9 Veterans w/ 3 Plasmaguns, 6 Lasguns, 9 Close Combat Weapons, and Krak & Frag Grenades; 1 Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Krak & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Chimera w/ Multi-Laser and Heavy Flamer. [170]

Fast Attack:
* Vendetta {IG Allies} w/ 3 TL-Lascannons and Extra Armor. [130]

Heavy Support:
* Manticore {IG Allies} w/ Storm Eagle Rockets, Heavy Bolter, Searchlight, and Smoke Launchers. [160]

Total Points: [2000]

25 Comments

Sharpie

9/2/2012 09:47:17 am

Wow, sounds great, I am glad you've managed to show there's still some life left in BT. I would love to read a battle report or two showcasing how your list went. I am also glad myself to have finally finished Helsreach today, it was very good read. Did you hear about GW's leaked release schedule a while ago? that contained some interesting nuggets like Crusader Bikes, a new Marshal, some plastic Sword Brethren and a few other things Ive forgotten. No pics though.

John Stiening link

9/2/2012 01:46:47 pm

Congrats man!

Lucion

9/3/2012 07:29:39 am

Good job on the results Laeroth! Really looking forward's to that face lift and getting a better understandings of the games and lists that came up.

Marshal Laeroth (Admin) link

9/4/2012 11:05:15 am

Thank you. :)

I'll be getting to the 6th Edition stuff as soon as I can. I really wanted to get a major GT in 6th under my belt before I started making legitimate analysis. I can armchair general all I want, but doesn't mean anything to anyone if I don't actually have any tournament experience to draw from. With that out of the way, I can start doing it. :)

9/4/2012 12:49:33 pm

Ok great stuff, I scrubbed together a few of the lists (kopach - 50 grey hunters, 15 long fangs, njal, guardsmen and wolf guard, , a nid and the daemon player in the finals)

It would be great to do some theory about possible lists in those siutations based on what happened on 6th.

Algesan link

9/3/2012 09:24:04 am

I ended up 1-5, which I'll discuss in more detail on my site later, but as far as a "meta" forming...I'm extremely disturbed. Especially on the tournament front unless some change is made to the way games are played. The problem is with the first loss mentioned...150 Ork bodies on the field. I didn't like that kind of list in a time limited (tournament) setting in 5th and given that there appears to be a strong trend towards more bodies in games, IMO, this is going to get worse. I'll go so far as to say that unless acceptable counters start showing up to mass foot lists, they will start dominating games with time limits for both book scenario formats and the quarters/objectives/modified KP missions found at NOVA. It is easy for them to strike fast and hard to grab a solid advantage in turn three and since it takes longer to move and to a lesser extent shoot in each turn, more time gets eaten off the clock. At what point does being careful, following the rules and politely informing your opponent what you are doing become, even if unconsciously, time-wasters to limit the game to less than five and hopefully four turns?

Algesan

9/3/2012 09:24:51 am

Not changes to the way games are played, the way they are scored for wins.

9/3/2012 02:40:11 pm

Yeah it take's AGES if those Ork players are only moving them model by model. What one needs is a time limit of guide for them, and get them to pick them up in clumps of 5 models at a time otherwise it just takes too long.

9/4/2012 11:13:56 am

The Orc player I was playing against actually had a pretty ingenious way of going about it. He magnetized each Orc to a metal sheet approximately 6x10" and then just moved that. When it came to an issue with terrain, he'd take them off, but it usually didn't require it as the terrain at Nova was flat enough to just set the sheet on. That made movement really quick.

Or, if you're Tony K and moving his 50-man blob squad...he moves them one by one...but INSANELY fast. Like...15 secs for the whole squad fast. No joke. That comes with experience. :P

But I do agree that too many mass infantry players take advantage of the system and move extremely slow. I heard (but don't know first hand) that the TO's docked slow play opponents in some fashion.

So...

9/4/2012 02:26:18 am

Vendettas can't really fly :D

9/4/2012 11:01:37 am

Touche. ;)

Elsus

9/4/2012 05:12:24 am

They should have a time limit per player's turn, so if you can't finish within that time then too bad. Its more fair that way as you won't take up your opponent's time to your advantage like in Algesan's case.

9/4/2012 06:51:38 am

It isn't so much one person with a mass model list, it is the advantages in the objectives/quarters tournament environment to both players having mass model lists. Amusingly, for a new edition that enhances shooting over assault, with the current tournament system (and NOVA is real liberal with 2.5 hours per game and really could go with 3 hours if they went 3-3-2 games instead of the 2-4-2 they did this time), durable assault oriented armies with some heavy firepower support look like a better choice.

The problem with moving in clumps...unless it is a fairly clear board so that it is easy to move in straight lines with grid formations (hey, put them all on movement trays, wait, no, I don't want to play Napoleonics) then there are too many chances for shenanigans, even unintentionally, that could hurt either player with premeasuring on top of the new wound rules saying the closest model gets hit.

My solution, in total theorizing right now is...change the victory paradigm. How? I have no real clue at the moment. Some glimmers, but I'm too stuck in objectives/quarters myself right now. I think the first assumption that needs to be abandoned is that all the terrain on all the boards plus all the objectives on all the boards need to be exactly the same to give exactly the same (or fairly similar) mission in each round. IMO, that is a crock because of the variations in the individual terrain pieces on the boards. Ah...I'll think about it a bit more.

9/4/2012 07:11:05 am

I like the idea of a time limit, it keeps things brisk and natural. It shouldnt be imposing though.

Well Algesan, if there are not grids and lines on the board, what about something to help measure the formations movement.

As an Ork player what I used to find helpful was premeasuring the maximum distrance the first few could get too (put a few dice down) then move those ones first (probably 5-6).
Then the rest follow behind and you can literally pick up another 5-6 at a time, or just shove them forwards with the measure.

What is wrong with the idea terrain needs to be the same?
For competitive play, and what seems to be coming up, is a need for laser cut boards on pre-defined boards/grounds like any competitive sport or e sport.

Naturally war does not occur like this, but this is not war, it is competition.. right?

9/4/2012 07:13:00 am

9/4/2012 07:13:33 am

9/4/2012 07:29:40 am

I like the idea of a time limit, it keeps things brisk and natural.

As an Ork player what I used to find helpful was premeasuring the maximum distrance the first few

could get too (put a few dice down) then move those ones first (probably 5-6).
Then the rest follow behind and you can literally pick up another 5-6 at a time, or just shove them

forwards with the measure. (good with lots of boys and the other player can watch for fairness)

What is wrong with the idea terrain needs to be the same?
For competitive play, and what seems to be coming up, is a need for laser cut boards on pre-defined

boards/grounds like any competitive sport or e sport.

John Galt

9/4/2012 05:11:09 pm

Just out of curiosity- what army list was used by the GT's winning player?

9/4/2012 05:16:57 pm

Via "Best Overall"

Space Wolves:
Njal
5x Grey Hunter squads; 3x10 w/ 2x Plasma, 1x10 w/ 2x Melta. All wolf standard and each lead by a PF
Wolf Guard Terminator, and 1x5 with just flamer
2x Lone Wolves w/ Chainfist & storm shield
2x5 Long Fangs with 4 missiles each

Imperial Guard Allies:
Primaris Psyker
5 man PCS w/ no upgrades
50 man Blob Squad w/ 5x Power Axes & meltabombs

9/5/2012 02:26:28 am

Tony Kopach (the space wolf player above) has won 3 of these in a row. The Spacewolf codex is great. Hopeful the Templar will get something that great troop choices or rules (Grey hunters are simply excellent).. have such great synergy with Long fangs in rules/points/costs)

I heard it was x3 Long fang squads?

9/6/2012 11:15:57 am

I'm kinda worried we will either get the S.o.B treatment or get a Codex that sucks. I can't see how Marine Blob Squads can ever work without cheap mass power weapons. We will most definitely lose our ability to have our cheap 5 man squads with heavy and special weapons and our excellent HQ choices that aren't terrible when it comes to a proper fight. Our fittingly powerful Commanders and Chaplains will probably get replaced by their equivalents in C:SM at the moment. 3 attack base maximum captains with no use as a utility who cost a ridiculous amount of pts and aren't worth a damn in a fight, WS6 or not. Chaplains will probably become worthless fighters, only being used for their utility. The EC may or may not get a huge rise in points, considering how efficient he is for his price at the moment.

9/5/2012 03:48:42 am

20 Man Foot slogging squads with a couple of meltas and more than 1 high strength/ power weapon and a few righteous qualities - that would sound like Templars..

Trying to make a few wild claims based on the good bits BA and SW have..

9/7/2012 04:01:44 am

Forum is being flaky again.

Question for the longer time 40k players. How did you do tournaments in 3d & 4th Ed? I've got a local buddy who played back then and he said they had no strict time limits on the games, but you couldn't screw around. They would play five games, three on Saturday and two on Sunday, starting early. If true, maybe NOVA should go to 3-3-2 with the idea you finish the games in a timely manner without screwing around, but not being forced to take a "fast" list or be under pressure not to waste time by getting into a rules dispute because you are under the time gun.

If I know I'm going to get five turns in, I'd bring the list I brought. Given actual experience, I'd bring Ork allies, doubling my models to deploy and move and make the game even slower. As an added "bonus", the luxury of being able to demand a player pull their codex instead of having to balance probably playing with the wrong rules vs. the need to crank out turns would be nice.

Philsminions

9/9/2012 02:31:11 pm

Congrats Brother! Leave it up to you to represent the Templar community well! ;) I'm looking forward to reading your batreps. Thanks for helping us to keep the faith...some strange times we're playing in. Keep that advice coming!

9/10/2012 03:58:02 am

Thats a great list, good for bringing it up again.
It can output alot of damage and also soak up a ton.

it needs to go in the tournament winning lists section!

its BT MSU Allied Thunder Bubble.

This year's Nova Open comes to a close...

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